[01:20] <GPF_PRO> I am sure you have seen the intrinsic INC from the compiler.
[01:20] <GPF_PRO> INC does not accept strings.
[01:21] <GPF_PRO> But it can if you create that operator
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[01:21] <Kraig> It’s a strange syntax
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[01:21] <GPF_PRO> MyString := inc(Si,S3);
[01:22] <GPF_PRO> That will generate in teh back ground Result := S1+S2;
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[01:23] <Kraig> It does seem a lot like c++ operator overload with different syntax
[01:23] <sh4rm4^bnc> operator overloading is a bad idea, that's why C doesn't have it...
[01:23] <Kraig> I looked at one for or
[01:23] <GPF_PRO> its just a code template generator
[01:23] <Kraig> I don’t think I’ll need it yet
[01:24] <Kraig> Afk a bit ty for info
[01:24] <GPF_PRO> ok
[01:24] <GPF_PRO> you could say its almost like code folder in the laz IDE editor
[01:26] <GPF_PRO> Then you have the adanvced records
[01:31] <GPF_PRO> it is all syntax sugar
[01:32] <GPF_PRO> most of that stuff is off the side marco operations in the compiler
[01:32] <GPF_PRO> it generates what looks like a pascal code strip
[01:32] <GPF_PRO> and then compiler reads that as basic pascal code
[01:33] <GPF_PRO> years ago I wrote a few small compilers
[01:33] <GPF_PRO> and what i did was write the intrinsic part of the compiler first so that it can its basic work with the basics
[01:34] <GPF_PRO> from there I added the sugar which was nothing more than off the side script generators from the supplied parameters
[01:35] <GPF_PRO> the compiler itself had some built in specif intrinsic tricks up its sleave
[01:35] <GPF_PRO> This is like a RISC cpu
[01:36] <GPF_PRO> so if you were to look at a textual dump of what it would look like to the compiler's eyes, you'd be in for a shock
[01:38] <sh4rm4^bnc> it's not all about easier *writing* of code
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[01:38] <ShaoB> ShaoB v 2.4.11
[01:38] <ShaoB> Morning :)
[01:38] <sh4rm4^bnc> operator overloading is a feature that prevents you from reading it
[01:39] <sh4rm4^bnc> because you read code that uses + but in reality it does something completely different
[01:39] <GPF_PRO> it just forces the compiler to type out the the code foryou.
[01:39] <GPF_PRO> the overloading part is like a macro generator
[01:39] <sh4rm4^bnc> if you read that code 10 years later, do you still recall that that plus there is overloaded ?
[01:40] <GPF_PRO> I think the code tools helps you there to remind you.
[01:40] <GPF_PRO> of course you need to use the same tools to see that info.
[01:40] <sh4rm4^bnc> if you put a comment around every overloaded operator use ? :)
[01:41] <Kraig> If you hover mouse over overloaded + will it show what it is “
[01:41] <Kraig> ?
[01:41] <GPF_PRO> You put the comments just above the Declaration and it will show in code tools
[01:41] <sh4rm4^bnc> # the following + effectively joins 2 lists together
[01:41] <GPF_PRO> the little Hint will popup each time
[01:41] <sh4rm4^bnc> c = b + a;
[01:41] <sh4rm4^bnc> instead of c = list_join(a, b); without comment
[01:42] <GPF_PRO> Put the comments above the code line.
[01:42] <GPF_PRO> in braces
[01:42] <sh4rm4^bnc> right, my point is if you need to put a comment there everytime, you've lost the advantage of syntax sugar
[01:42] <GPF_PRO> I believe Code tools behaves differently depending on what it is but if you do that in your code it will show for you elsewhere
[01:43] <GPF_PRO> You only need the comment where you created the operator overload
[01:43] <GPF_PRO> so from there, where you use it it should show
[01:43] <sh4rm4^bnc> ah, so you need support from the editor
[01:43] <GPF_PRO> Its the code tools in Laz
[01:44] <GPF_PRO> it looks for the declaration and finds your comments..
[01:44] <GPF_PRO> and shows them.
[01:44] <GPF_PRO> there is a specific format to use where you can prevent them from showing . I'd have to look that one up
[01:44] sh4rm4^bnc uses GNU nano to write code
[01:44] <sh4rm4^bnc> it works without mouse and tooltips
[01:45] <GPF_PRO> but it shows comments on the tail and on top depending on how its formated
[01:45] <Kraig> I think if you name the things being added to indicate That they are objects you could remember that it’s overloaded +
[01:45] <Kraig> Obj1 + obj2
[01:46] <sh4rm4^bnc> or, you could simply write out c = list_join(a, b) and leave the overloading for the kids :)
[01:46] <Kraig> One char variable names are not a good idea usually
[01:47] <sh4rm4^bnc> if you keep your funcs short, it's no problem
[01:47] <Kraig> It’s all up to the programmer and thats how it should be
[01:47] <GPF_PRO> Well for example a Object has a string field in it.
[01:47] <sh4rm4^bnc> but if you have 10+ vars used over 100 lines, then yeah
[01:47] <GPF_PRO> MyString := MyObject;
[01:47] <Kraig> I only use one char variable for loop indices and test code
[01:47] <GPF_PRO> it would populate MyString with the string field
[01:48] <Kraig> Local variable can be one char
[01:49] <sh4rm4^bnc> in C there's like an agreed to style... i = loop iterator, c = single character, s = string, p,q = pointer
[01:49] <sh4rm4^bnc> oh sure, those are all local
[01:49] <GPF_PRO> yeah ok, I just placed a { Comment } over a procedure and then reated code tools over the name, it shows me the comment.
[01:51] <GPF_PRO> its good to do this for code that starts to get complex
[01:51] <GPF_PRO> and large.
[01:51] <GPF_PRO> so later you can look at and study the code using Code tools to show you the comments vai a HINT popup
[01:52] <Kraig> Oh yea I’ve noticed comments in header show don’t they?
[01:53] <Kraig> Hmm maybe not
[01:54] <GPF_PRO> For the most part you place your comment over the procedure/Function ..
[01:54] <GPF_PRO> for other types Ive found I had to place them on the same line for the code tools to show it.
[01:54] <GPF_PRO> you can test that while you are editing infront of you.
[01:57] <Kraig> That’s strange I know I’ve seen my comments before but not sure why
[01:57] <Kraig> Oh they are in different color ;)
[01:57] <GPF_PRO> Yes, now you know why
[01:58] <Kraig> They are after the location of file
[01:58] <Kraig> Hahah
[01:58] <GPF_PRO> I think it depends where the comment are from.. your code or libs.
[01:59] <Kraig> Some things aren’t showing the comments that’s strange..
[01:59] <GPF_PRO> It depends on what types they are
[02:00] <GPF_PRO> for some items you need to place the comments on the same line at the end.
[02:01] <GPF_PRO> Usually Code tools shows Procedures, functions, Class declarations tec..
[02:02] <GPF_PRO> so when you build a class you can place a comment on top and in the public fields of the class you can place some comments in there too.
[02:03] <GPF_PRO> I like to show help on the parameters.
[02:03] <GPF_PRO> you can have multiple lines
[02:04] <Kraig> I put my comments using // next to procedure in class header and sometimes to right of or on line above the procedure in implementation section
[02:04] <Kraig> Hmm I haven’t checked for public
[02:05] <GPF_PRO> I just rest my mouse over the item to make sure it shows
[02:05] <GPF_PRO> if not I move the comments elsewhere..
[02:05] <GPF_PRO> for some items comments show only on the lines..
[02:06] <Kraig> The comment shows for a local variable
[02:07] <GPF_PRO> Thats so that if you have code that is off the screen you can see it without scroll up
[02:08] <Kraig> I try to keep my files fairly short but in some cases I have more lines than I’d like
[02:08] <Kraig> Scrolling gets tiresome fast doesn’t it
[02:08] <GPF_PRO> yes it does
[02:09] <GPF_PRO> you do have code folding to shorting the view some..
[02:09] <Kraig> If you remember line number you can use Ctrl g to get back or put a letter there to make it five compile error
[02:09] <GPF_PRO> The code is still there, its just the editor hides it
[02:09] <Kraig> Give
[02:10] <GPF_PRO> Normally I just click the Debug window
[02:10] <Kraig> Oh yea code folding is kind of nice but I find it is a bit disconcerting
[02:11] <GPF_PRO> I think there is a feature in the editor where you can code fold all of it and just click on the one you want to see expand
[02:11] <Kraig> Oh small files are easy to manage and test and most importantly upgrade
[02:11] <GPF_PRO> ot makes scrolling to other code very fast
[02:11] <GPF_PRO> when you get there, you open it.
[02:12] <Kraig> If you do ctrl g it probably takes you to folded line
[02:12] <GPF_PRO> I need to look at the list.
[02:13] <arahael> John_Ivan: i dont tend to test ui in unit tests.
[02:14] <Kraig> My goal is to reduce the lines of code while improving functionality
[02:14] <GPF_PRO> That is the idea of using classes, schmart records etc
[02:16] <GPF_PRO> ok.
[02:16] <GPF_PRO> there are some predefined keys
[02:17] <GPF_PRO> ALT+Shift+1..9 gives you different levels of folding
[02:18] <GPF_PRO> They should have an option in there to print out a Tree of the Mapped keys..
[02:18] <GPF_PRO> so some one can have a cheat sheet infront of them.
[02:19] <Kraig> How do you unfold it?
[02:20] <GPF_PRO> its in the TOOLS:OPTIONS:EDITOR:KEYMNAPPINGS
[02:20] <Kraig> Alt shift 3 seems to return it to normal
[02:20] <GPF_PRO> alt shift 0 is suppose to unfold it all
[02:21] <GPF_PRO> and the alt shift - folds at the line a+ opens it
[02:22] <GPF_PRO> u need to look at your mappings
[02:22] <GPF_PRO> you can save a configuration too.
[02:24] <GPF_PRO> I think I am going to put in a request for a print out of those, a nice cheat sheet
[02:27] <Kraig> I didn’t try the 0 one yet
[02:28] <Kraig> Same effect as the 3
[02:28] <Kraig> I don’t use folding but this will be great for if I fold by accident
[02:29] <GPF_PRO> Yes
[02:29] <GPF_PRO> I've done that before
[02:29] <GPF_PRO> ;)
[02:29] <GPF_PRO> You can see it when it happens anyways
[02:30] <GPF_PRO> you see the little + boxes there.
[02:30] <Kraig> I guess but they are hard to click on
[02:30] <GPF_PRO> but what I like about it is If I code fold most of the source file I can see all the functions names infront of me.
[02:31] <GPF_PRO> and I don't need to scroll do far..
[02:31] <GPF_PRO> then its click and i open that one.
[02:38] <GPF_PRO> its good to collapes the classes when they get large
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[02:59] <ShaoB> Earthquake COQUIMBO, CHILE on 2020-09-06 01:16, UTC, magnitude 6.2 m, depth 25 km, lat -30.35, lon -71.59
[03:02] <Kraig> Yea it would be great for a file with thousands of lines
[03:04] <GPF_PRO> oh well, time for bed now...
[03:04] <GPF_PRO> GOod night,,
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[08:39] <ShaoB> Earthquake CENTRAL MID-ATLANTIC RIDGE on 2020-09-06 06:51, UTC, magnitude 6.4 mw, depth 33 km, lat 7.67, lon -37.15
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[14:32] <ShaoB> Jo-Anna Kobe, HyÅgo, Japan, Light Rain Shower, 26C as 28C, wind 26.0 km/h ENE, precip 3.3 mm, pressure 1007 hPa, humidity 89%, uv 1
[14:32] <Ecran10> everything nice
[14:32] <Jo-Anna> So Romania has ended the nonsense?
[14:32] <Ecran10> not really
[14:33] <Jo-Anna> I thought the people rebelled
[14:33] <Ecran10> how to put this
[14:33] <Ecran10> now they say it upfront, even on TV
[14:34] <Ecran10> more and more that it is a scam :))
[14:34] <Jo-Anna> The cdc can keep landlords from evicting non paying tenants and then the landlords can’t pay mortgages or property taxes and lose the land
[14:34] <Ecran10> decision are changed from day to day
[14:35] <Jo-Anna> The cdc now owns all rental property
[14:35] <Ecran10> what is CDC?
[14:36] <Jo-Anna> Centers for disease control can tell landlords not to evict . I imagine there will be lawsuits because landlords not like to provide free real estate
[14:37] <Ecran10> the CDC will lose the lawsuits
[14:37] <Jo-Anna> It’s going to end up like Detroit
[14:37] <Ecran10> it depends on how people defend their property
[14:38] <Ecran10> you can't force anybody with nothing when it comes to property
[14:38] <Jo-Anna> There are corporate landlords that make their income from rental property
[14:38] <Jo-Anna> Landlords who evict tenants will become criminals
[14:39] <Jo-Anna> The whole thing is going to crumble
[14:39] <Jo-Anna> The first thing will happen is they can’t pay maintenance staff
[14:40] <Jo-Anna> So the buildings will fall apart
[14:40] <Ecran10> you get the people out of the property
[14:40] <Ecran10> and then the property will get ruined later in time
[14:41] <Jo-Anna> Apparently there is some cdc form that prevents eviction
[14:41] <Ecran10> probably everybody in this world knows that in USA the right for property is not negociable, maybe more than anywhere else
[14:41] <Ecran10> there were also cartoons, movies where some property owner said with the shotgun in his hand: "Get off my property!"
[14:41] <Jo-Anna> Yea vacant properties can be ruined also like In Detroit
[14:42] <Ecran10> so can't really think how anyone would have the guts to question property ownership
[14:42] <Ecran10> and property rights
[14:42] <Ecran10> well, the CDC form can be invalid from the point of view of the law
[14:42] <Jo-Anna> Well landlords have been without rent for how long now?
[14:42] <Ecran10> i.e. tomorrow we create a bogus form and say to everybody that we want this and that
[14:42] <Jo-Anna> Millions can’t pay
[14:43] <Ecran10> cut down a bit the rent
[14:43] <Ecran10> and they will pay some fee
[14:43] <Jo-Anna> People have no jobs and no savings
[14:44] <Ecran10> working the land is not allowed?
[14:44] <Ecran10> maybe there are people hiring to manually work the land
[14:44] <Ecran10> what is wrong with that?
[14:44] <Ecran10> or doing simple jobs
[14:44] <Ecran10> there is always a need for that
[14:44] <Jo-Anna> Even if they force landlords to house people for free I doubt that they can force stores to feed people for free the stores will stop buying what they can’t sell
[14:45] <Jo-Anna> these are not farms they are residential and commercial properties
[14:46] <Ecran10> was talking about the people that don't have jobs
[14:46] <Ecran10> there are always simple jobs
[14:46] <Ecran10> maybe not paid that well, but that way there is an income
[14:46] <Jo-Anna> You can’t make them farm they live faraway
[14:46] <Ecran10> and probably farms always have a place to work
[14:47] <Ecran10> oh ok ok
[14:47] <Ecran10> was trying to think of some sort of simple solution
[14:47] <Jo-Anna> America separates people from the food
[14:47] <Jo-Anna> Of course there are simple solutions but they aren’t going to happen.
[14:48] <Jo-Anna> The government could have employed people to do useful things instead of giving money to rich companies
[14:49] <Jo-Anna> The government could buy and store food and give it out
[14:49] <Jo-Anna> They don’t care they want people dead!
[14:49] <Jo-Anna> Maybe they want to do that rewilding project
[14:50] <Ecran10> was thinking at what you are writing
[14:51] <Jo-Anna> Jobless people will be used as tools to confiscate the land then they will be sent to death camps maybes
[14:51] <Jo-Anna> Once banks own the land people will be removed
[14:52] <Ecran10> just think a bit of the following thing:
[14:52] <Ecran10> the Federal Reserve has been taken out of the hands of those nasty and rich families
[14:52] <Jo-Anna> Everyone in real estate and property management will lose their jobs
[14:52] <Ecran10> such as Rockefeller, Rothchild, Morgan, Warburg
[14:53] <Ecran10> this is a big hit that they have taken
[14:53] <Jo-Anna> Who owns it now?
[14:53] <Ecran10> the state
[14:53] <Ecran10> the USA
[14:53] <Jo-Anna> Oh
[14:53] <Ecran10> yes, it is a big deal!
[14:53] <Jo-Anna> Didn’t know
[14:53] <Jo-Anna> When ?
[14:53] <Ecran10> Jo-Anna, this happened a few months ago
[14:53] <Jo-Anna> Oh
[14:53] <Ecran10> Trump took the Federal Reserve out of their hands
[14:54] <Jo-Anna> Really
[14:54] <Ecran10> yes, that is real
[14:54] <Ecran10> check it out on the web
[14:54] <Jo-Anna> I think he is up to no good though
[14:54] <Ecran10> not this time
[14:54] <Jo-Anna> I expect an all out civil war by early November
[14:55] <Jo-Anna> After election
[14:55] <Ecran10> all that "war" would be also organized by these fascist that are still up there
[14:55] <Jo-Anna> They are spending too much money
[14:55] <Ecran10> and still try to maneuver the people's minds
[14:56] <Jo-Anna> The civil war is already happening with the blm crap
[14:56] <Jo-Anna> America has so many groups that are ready to kill eachother
[14:57] <Ecran10> yes, the BLM individuals are the ones that have the guts only against normal people
[14:57] <Ecran10> but they don't even blink when something similar to the military comes against them
[14:57] <Ecran10> and Trump is backed by the military
[14:58] <Ecran10> and then again, remember that day when Trump was out in the open holding the Bible in his hand?
[14:58] <Ecran10> when he went to that church and the BLM and the fascits were completely scandalized about it?
[14:58] <Ecran10> well, do you think the BLM are friends with Trump? not really
[14:59] <Ecran10> some people that complain they don't have jobs
[14:59] <Ecran10> might also be the ones hanging out in BLM groups
[15:00] <Ecran10> how do these people earn their money to have time to make out a scandal every day?
[15:04] <ShaoB> ALERT! This Is A Takeover Period!! - YouTube
[15:05] <sh4rm4^bnc> qresearch still exists?
[15:06] <sh4rm4^bnc> i'm not so positive that the merger of the treasury and the fed really means that the fed is now under state/people control
[15:07] <Jo-Anna> Blm seems to be foolish young people isn’t it ? All colors revolutions are
[15:07] <sh4rm4^bnc> sponsored by soros just like the feminists, abortionists, antifa, etc
[15:07] <Ecran10> a bunch of people eager to make confusion between dancing at a concert and making protests
[15:08] <Jo-Anna> The fed is under corporate control maybe
[15:08] <Jo-Anna> I haven’t heard much about the Germans did they get their rights back after protests?
[15:09] <Jo-Anna> And the Lebanon bombing . I hate it when stories are abandoned
[15:09] <sh4rm4^bnc> nuked by israel
[15:09] <Jo-Anna> There were tunnels under port
[15:09] <Ecran10> Jo-Anna here is an idea that striked me now:
[15:09] <Jo-Anna> How was it done?
[15:10] <Ecran10> maybe this interdiction for the corporate landlords to be forbidden to evict people is the first step
[15:10] <Ecran10> towards a grand scale nationalization of property
[15:11] <sh4rm4^bnc> i.e. communism ?
[15:11] <Ecran10> to take it out from the hands of the globalists
[15:11] <Ecran10> sh4rm4^bnc nationalization doesn't mean communism
[15:11] <Jo-Anna> There are a lot of non corporate landlords. People living off the property they rent out
[15:11] <Ecran10> it means that the state takes back what has been fraudunlently taken by the large scale mafia
[15:12] <Jo-Anna> Ecran10: I disagree with that theory because they turned over military bases to private developers
[15:13] <Jo-Anna> It’s a disaster if government owns everything because the government is corrupt
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[15:14] <Jo-Anna> If they kill everyone there will be nobody to contest the stealing of property
[15:14] <Ecran10> good point
[15:15] <Ecran10> how about the following:
[15:16] <Ecran10> the tenants remain the the houses, the corporate landlords lose the houses
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[15:16] <Ecran10> and out of a sudden comes a law that says: the corporate owner lose their property
[15:16] <Ecran10> and the tenants that don't have where to live
[15:16] <Ecran10> will become the owners of the property in which they are currently living
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[15:17] <Ecran10> and everybody has a home
[15:17] <sh4rm4^bnc> not exactly what UN agenda 2030 propagates
[15:18] <sh4rm4^bnc> they wanna put all people into big cities to have them controlled
[15:18] <sh4rm4^bnc> in the 5G grid...
[15:19] <Ecran10> Trump said that the UN is a useless organization
[15:25] <Jo-Anna> Ecran10: I doubt they would play robin hood
[15:25] <Ecran10> you never know
[15:25] <Jo-Anna> Maybe people in Saudi Arabia will run around naked ..
[15:25] <Ecran10> if you want to win everybody, that is a way to do it
[15:26] <Jo-Anna> Trump is a temporary puppet nothing more
[15:27] <sh4rm4^bnc> *nod*
[15:27] <sh4rm4^bnc> what i've seen from trump so far is saying one thing and doing another
[15:28] <Jo-Anna> It’s kind of hard to know what they are up to but not probably involves killing people and taking their stuff
[15:28] <sh4rm4^bnc> and the Q forum was instantiated so his followers believe that good things happen and they can lean back and relax
[15:28] <Ecran10> when you are dealing with the NWO, those that said it straight out in the open got shot the next day
[15:29] <Jo-Anna> People don’t have gold fillings to steal anymore. If you think of that for a moment more gold once belonged to ordinary people instead of banks
[15:29] <sh4rm4^bnc> that must've been before the protocols of zion were written...
[15:31] <Jo-Anna> Oh yea they always fund protest groups and people think they will be saved and the plan proceeds. There were protests about body scanners at airports but the stupid sheeple would all go in the body scanner without a second thought
[15:32] <Ecran10> so you take no side
[15:32] <Ecran10> it means there would be a 3rd side
[15:32] <sh4rm4^bnc> as they learned by watching "captain fantastic"
[15:32] <Jo-Anna> Stupid sheeple had babies in hospitals and sent their kids to prison 6 hours a day and accepted a tracking number
[15:32] <sh4rm4^bnc> (where they also learned that noam chomsky is to be admired)
[15:34] <Jo-Anna> Noam is on public radio he is championed by the fake opposition
[15:35] <Jo-Anna> He is part of the sob story about evil government narrative
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[15:36] <sh4rm4^bnc> right, i just wanted to point out how the hollywood movie was used to put subliminal messages into people's heads
[15:38] <sh4rm4^bnc> message 1: don't even try to be self-substainable, you'll fail 2: noam chomsky is your hero 3: it's cool to pass through airport body scanners without a second thought
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[15:41] <Jo-Anna> Well I don’t know about subliminal they crush communes rather publicly to set an example. They have set things up so you can’t be self sustainable even if you have a big group and enough money to buy a lot of land. Most people are so distracted they don’t realize how precarious their position is and they think farming is undesirable lifestyle.
[15:41] <Ecran10> here is another problem: hopelessness
[15:42] <Jo-Anna> It
[15:42] <Ecran10> this is more fatal than all possible enemies, be it imagined or real
[15:43] <Ecran10> if you want to win a war, make the other side think there is no hope
[15:43] <Ecran10> if you have no hope, you can't find any solution
[15:43] <Jo-Anna> The American culture is one of great stupidity example people do not value fruit trees and destroy them every chance they get. They are that detached from nature they think all food magically appears in grocery stores
[15:44] <Ecran10> and hope is something very near and related to faith and beliefs
[15:44] <Jo-Anna> Hope in the wrong thing is equally destructive
[15:44] <Ecran10> Jo-Anna how can you say that? they have probably become due to the crappy media, but they weren't always like that
[15:46] <Ecran10> can't really think that everybody is completely brainwiped
[15:46] <Jo-Anna> There is another phenomenon I call it people acting stupid. A large group of leaderless people doing stupid things is as useless as no people on your side at all.
[15:46] <Ecran10> if it had been like that, we would have been already dead
[15:47] <Jo-Anna> Hope that an impossible relationship can be a success if I just try harder taught me a lesson
[15:47] <Jo-Anna> On many occasions
[15:48] <Ecran10> hope doesn't mean that you have to stick only to one way of doing things
[15:48] <Ecran10> as previously said, better to have hope than to not have it at all
[15:49] <Jo-Anna> There were times i wanted to do something but it was literally impossible because stupid people had no leadership and wouldn’t listen to my advice.
[15:49] <Ecran10> correct, that means that they were the wrong people
[15:50] <Ecran10> 7 billion people, it is impossible to think that you are the only one seeing the truth
[15:51] <Jo-Anna> I have no hope for anything good happening when sociopaths control the world I function purely on compulsion
[15:51] <Jo-Anna> Even if you see the truth you can’t stop what will happen
[15:52] <Ecran10> how do you know that?
[15:52] <Jo-Anna> The sheeple will drag us off the cliff with them.
[15:53] <Jo-Anna> Sure you can try to dodge being murdered but when billions of people do stupid things you can’t overcome it.
[15:53] <Ecran10> don't know how you can be 100% certain about such things
[15:53] <Jo-Anna> The affects of bad judgment by others affect my life they always had.
[15:54] <Ecran10> in my experience things can change from one day to the other without even imagining
[15:54] <Ecran10> of how things turned
[15:54] <Jo-Anna> Yea they change for the worse usually
[15:55] <Ecran10> not completely true
[15:55] <Ecran10> i.e. you can stand at your PC, use your phone to call others
[15:55] <Ecran10> choose what food you want to eat
[15:55] <Jo-Anna> Well who knows I expect the sheeple to just act stupid as they always have
[15:55] <Ecran10> 200 years ago they didn't have this comfort
[15:55] <Jo-Anna> Ecran10: sure enjoy the simple things while I still can
[15:56] <Jo-Anna> I do that
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[15:56] <Ecran10> but can't understand one thing
[15:57] <Ecran10> why bother talking about it if nothing can be done?
[15:57] <Ecran10> :))
[15:57] <Ecran10> throughout my life, 95% of the time had to deal with people without hope
[15:57] <Ecran10> and let me tell you that it is not pretty
[15:57] <Ecran10> and all of them have the same traits when it comes to it
[15:57] <Ecran10> it is very easy to not have hope
[15:58] <Ecran10> hopelessness doesn't exercise the will
[15:58] <Ecran10> on the contrary, it leaves one "going with the bad flow"
[15:58] <Ecran10> it is also how you choose to think, then feel and then act
[15:59] <Ecran10> so having no hope can at a maximum generate talk
[15:59] <Ecran10> but no action
[15:59] <Ecran10> probably if there was any action out of hopelessness, it would be an anarchy type action
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[16:42] <ShaoB> Earthquake TONGA on 2020-09-06 14:55, UTC, magnitude 5.5 m, depth 10 km, lat -20.69, lon -173.55
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[17:11] <ShaoB> Earthquake MINDANAO, PHILIPPINES on 2020-09-06 15:23, UTC, magnitude 6.5 mw, depth 112 km, lat 6.31, lon 125.87
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[21:18] <sh4rm4^bnc> sup Ecran10
[21:42] <John_Ivan> hhi
[21:46] <sh4rm4^bnc> you're reading the "bread" ? :)
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[21:51] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, bread?
[21:52] <sh4rm4^bnc> yeah
[21:52] <sh4rm4^bnc> the qresearch threads are called bread
[21:53] <John_Ivan> I'm lacking your context. what do I have to do with bread or QResearch threads?
[21:53] <John_Ivan> bRead perhaps? :P
[21:53] <sh4rm4^bnc> oh, sorry, i thought Ecran10 was answering my call o.0
[21:54] <sh4rm4^bnc> both nicks are red in my irc client (hash to the same value)
[21:55] <John_Ivan> my client renders everyone blue, other than myself
[21:55] <sh4rm4^bnc> i guess i should revise the algorithm so any char is hashed on its own
[21:55] <sh4rm4^bnc> because there are like only 8 colors
[21:56] <sh4rm4^bnc> (so nicks would be rendered rainbow-like)
[21:57] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, just 2 colours here.
[21:57] <John_Ivan> I'm red. Everyone's blue.
[21:58] <John_Ivan> colouring mistakes cannot happen because I read someone's nick before talking to them.
[21:58] <sh4rm4^bnc> interesting. i use ixchat, my own version of xchat2, predecessor of hexchat
[21:58] <John_Ivan> I use hexchat.
[21:58] <sh4rm4^bnc> and by default it uses like 8 colors for nicks
[21:58] <sh4rm4^bnc> depending on hash
[21:59] <John_Ivan> why rainbow though?
[21:59] <sh4rm4^bnc> yeah i know
[21:59] <sh4rm4^bnc> -John_Ivan- VERSION HexChat 2.14.3 [x64] / Microsoft Windows 10 Home (x64) [AMD Ryzen 5 3550H with Radeon Vega Mobile Gfx (2.10GHz)]
[21:59] <sh4rm4^bnc> well so nicks can easily be differentiated by color
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[22:01] <sh4rm4^bnc> about 40% of nicks seem to hash to red, about 40% to green, and the rest is violet or blue
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[22:02] <Ecran10> back
[22:02] <Ecran10> was playing a game
[22:02] <John_Ivan> I would set colours based on customly allocated sets rather than a hash if I were you.
[22:02] <sh4rm4^bnc> that's on option, but effort
[22:02] <sh4rm4^bnc> i'd need to implement a new dialogue or something
[22:03] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, I'd do it by command
[22:03] <John_Ivan> \color <nick> Friend or something
[22:03] <sh4rm4^bnc> i'm a visual guy, so i need to see the color
[22:04] <John_Ivan> that's what I meant
[22:04] <John_Ivan> friends could be blue. red could be annoyances. gray can be unknown. favourite could be green.
[22:04] <sh4rm4^bnc> if i put everyone into "friends" they all will look alike too
[22:04] <John_Ivan> you can't possibly have more than 10 friends in one single chat room, can you?
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[22:05] <sh4rm4^bnc> depends on room size
[22:05] <John_Ivan> estimative falacy.
[22:05] <sh4rm4^bnc> :)
[22:05] <John_Ivan> but sure. your ideal.
[22:06] <sh4rm4^bnc> i think ixchat is only restricted to those colors because it uses the IRC colors for the name display
[22:07] <sh4rm4^bnc> preferences-interface-text box-colored nick name enables the option btw
[22:07] <sh4rm4^bnc> i suppose hexchat still has that too
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[22:09] <Ecran10> do you like FashionTV?
[22:10] <sh4rm4^bnc> iirc i looked at it a couple times many years ago
[22:10] <sh4rm4^bnc> sometimes there were hot chicks
[22:11] <John_Ivan> I haven't turned on my TV.......
[22:11] <John_Ivan> for almost a decade.
[22:11] <John_Ivan> lol
[22:11] <Ecran10> for a long time?
[22:11] <Ecran10> haha :))
[22:11] <John_Ivan> yeah, ever since I don't need to be fed anymore what the media give me, I managed to just go look for things I want myself.
[22:12] <John_Ivan> thank god for the internet.
[22:12] <Ecran10> good point
[22:13] <Ecran10> brain feeding with the TV
[22:13] <John_Ivan> yeah, I don't like to "wait" for a particular show to come up.
[22:13] <sh4rm4^bnc> same here, thus "many years ago"
[22:13] <John_Ivan> and I don't like the ads.
[22:14] <sh4rm4^bnc> TV just washes your brain over and over
[22:14] <sh4rm4^bnc> even if you know it does
[22:14] <Ecran10> have seen that there are some channels that present ads at the same time
[22:14] <zaherdirkey> if u have a brain
[22:14] <Ecran10> :))
[22:14] <John_Ivan> the only reason I'd open up the TV would probably be if "I just want some info to know what people are into these days"
[22:15] <Ecran10> haha :))
[22:15] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, yeah I think I have. annoying as fuck.
[22:15] <Ecran10> at first, thought it is a coincidence
[22:15] <Ecran10> but over time, it seemed that this coincidence is actually too often
[22:15] <Ecran10> i.e. day by day
[22:15] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, though let me mention something. TV is good for atmosphere. that's what my friend pointed out. the room is much livelier and nicer when you put a TV in the background. just to glance at. every now and then.
[22:16] <John_Ivan> doesn't have to be loud. just low volume and calm
[22:16] <Ecran10> it can run FashionTV, FineLiving or some sports channel
[22:16] <sh4rm4^bnc> urgh, i hate when the TV runs in the background
[22:16] <John_Ivan> I think I only watched Cartoon Network and Jetix 10 years ago.
[22:17] <sh4rm4^bnc> left my last GF for that
[22:17] <John_Ivan> ignored everything else (except for Hustler :>)
[22:17] <Ecran10> sh4rm4^bnc :))
[22:18] <Ecran10> John_Ivan :))
[22:18] <Ecran10> sh4rm4^bnc how did you do it? did you just leave and that was it?
[22:19] <sh4rm4^bnc> basically. but i like to leave after a fight so there's no desire to get back
[22:19] <John_Ivan> sounds a bit extreme. though, imagine if some woman also did the same thing.
[22:19] <John_Ivan> Reason for Divorce - "Leaves TV on in the background and I get annoyed."
[22:20] <sh4rm4^bnc> you can't imagine the endless disputes we had over that
[22:20] <John_Ivan> I can't. I haven't even gotten past the dating stage without a girl losing interest. lol
[22:20] <sh4rm4^bnc> but this is really most annoying
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[22:20] <sh4rm4^bnc> it's like having to go to a workplace where they have a radio mounted that plays pop the whole day
[22:21] <John_Ivan> I say it's alright. Given that you work doesn't involve a lot of mental effort.
[22:21] <sh4rm4^bnc> imagine having to listen to justin bieber and beyonce the whole day
[22:21] <John_Ivan> ok. I take it back.
[22:21] <John_Ivan> :)
[22:21] <John_Ivan> I guess I just imagined my radio playing Trance all day.
[22:22] <sh4rm4^bnc> :)
[22:23] <sh4rm4^bnc> i guess doing that in guantamo bay would be more efficient than waterboarding
[22:23] <Ecran10> some people have a level of 90% of ignorance when it comes to the influence of sound on the human ear and on thinking
[22:24] <John_Ivan> I can handle music in the background only if the mental effort is close to none - aka, automatic work.
[22:24] <John_Ivan> if I need to do anything more serious, I need to tone it down. or cut it off.
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[22:25] <John_Ivan> fixing the car. watching the sky. playing a game - music works great in these situations.
[22:25] <John_Ivan> programming? just not possible.
[22:25] <John_Ivan> math/decision making - not possible.
[22:25] <Ecran10> maybe it also depends on the music
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[15:50] <arahael> Wasn't there a fortran geek here?
[15:51] <zaherdirkey> or Pascal?
[15:52] <arahael> Heh.
[15:52] <zaherdirkey> kidding
[15:53] <arahael> zaherdirkey: Obviously. Why would we talk of pascal here? ;)
[15:55] <zaherdirkey> arahael ask @mischi when he is online
[15:55] <zaherdirkey> i think he work on old Fortran project
[15:55] <arahael> zaherdirkey: Ah, so not fortran90? I've just got someone in ##programming who is asking for good material on it.
[15:56] <zaherdirkey> idk, wait for him
[15:56] <arahael> I've namedropped the channel, as a compromise.
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[19:14] <Ecran10> hello everybody
[19:14] <Ecran10> .weather
[19:14] <ShaoB> Ecran10 Dorohoi, Botosani, Romania, Clear, 24C as 26C, wind 13.0 km/h NNW, precip 0.8 mm, pressure 1018 hPa, humidity 57%, uv 1
[19:19] <GPF_PRO> hmm, So I put "Graphics32" in the uses list and it complains about finding Gaphics..
[19:19] <GPF_PRO> instead
[19:25] <Ecran10> in the latest sources?
[19:46] <GPF_PRO> its the compiler
[19:46] <GPF_PRO> it gives stupid error when not finding a unit with the same starting name as one that is already in the list
[19:46] <GPF_PRO> or one that is already in the libs
[19:47] <GPF_PRO> either way, its stupid
[19:47] <GPF_PRO> Garphics is part of the standard libs of course. Put Graphics32 for example in the uses list , compile and see the error message
[19:48] <Ecran10> looked for "Graphics32" file, but there is none on the harddrive
[19:49] <GPF_PRO> This all started when I decided to throw some special effect graphics in my app instead of hard coding it I decided to use something that should exists
[19:49] <GPF_PRO> Yes I know there isn't any on the drive
[19:49] <GPF_PRO> but see what is in the error box when you attempt to insert that in the USES list
[19:49] <Ecran10> oh, ok ok
[19:49] <Ecran10> :))
[19:50] <GPF_PRO> Because it found something with the same starting name it decides to report on that instead..
[19:50] <Ecran10> Fatal: Unit Graphics32 searched but Graphics found
[19:50] <GPF_PRO> it could of at least added a little more to the message "Did you mean Graphics instead ? "
[19:51] <GPF_PRO> Doesn't that throw you off a little ?
[19:51] <Ecran10> would be interesting to see what it reports if you also have a unit "Graphics3"
[19:51] <Ecran10> oh the harddrive
[19:52] <Ecran10> when reading the error message, the eyes tend to fall on the last part
[19:52] <Ecran10> which contains the "Graphics" name
[19:52] <Antitrack> fascinating
[19:52] <Ecran10> spotted what is missing
[19:52] <Ecran10> the comma
[19:52] <Antitrack> ;
[19:52] <Ecran10> hello Antitrack :))
[19:52] <Antitrack> hi Ecran10 :)
[19:52] <GPF_PRO> so you would agree that is a little misleading
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[19:53] <Ecran10> Fatal: Unit Graphics32 searched, but Graphics found
[19:53] <Ecran10> check out the message now
[19:53] <GPF_PRO> It should simply say it wasn't found.
[19:54] <Ecran10> the problem is interesting
[19:54] <Ecran10> because the way things are expressed is a hobby for me
[19:54] <Ecran10> so it makes me curious
[19:54] <Ecran10> and can agree with you Professor that it has its misleading part
[19:55] <Ecran10> here is what might be the misleading thing:
[19:55] <Ecran10> it works like a redirection of intent for the mind
[19:55] <Ecran10> so you read the first part: "Unit Graphics32 searched"
[19:55] <GPF_PRO> It should say "Did you mean Graphics?"
[19:56] <Ecran10> yes, and also have a full stop before "Did"
[19:56] <GPF_PRO> yes, and that should say "Unit Graphics32 saerched For"
[19:56] <Ecran10> i.e. "Fatal: Unit Graphics32 not found. Did you mean Graphics?"
[19:57] <GPF_PRO> yes, looks like a language barrier issue .
[19:57] <Ecran10> that's it
[19:57] <GPF_PRO> I believe it needs to be fixed
[19:57] <Ecran10> The BugBusters in action :))
[19:57] <GPF_PRO> LOL
[19:58] <GPF_PRO> I was originally looking for the GDIPlus unit/Package
[19:58] <Ecran10> there is a program very useful for looking anything on the harddrive very fast from www.voidtools.com
[19:59] <Ecran10> it indexes the whole harddrive within 1 minute
[19:59] <Ecran10> and it makes a big database with the names of the file
[19:59] <GPF_PRO> marked
[19:59] <Ecran10> instant spotting of the file
[20:00] <Ecran10> have been using it to sort out many GB of files
[20:00] <Ecran10> and eliminate some of the doubles
[20:00] <Ecran10> better said many of the doubles
[20:00] <GPF_PRO> ah, GagBots
[20:00] <GPF_PRO> Yes. They say everyone has a double
[20:01] <GPF_PRO> I feel sorry for my double where ever he is.
[20:01] <GPF_PRO> ;)
[20:01] <Ecran10> :)) :))
[20:01] <GPF_PRO> especially if he is married
[20:01] <Ecran10> love and marriage, love and marriage
[20:01] <sh4rm4^bnc> to your wife ? ;)
[20:02] <GPF_PRO> LOL
[20:02] <GPF_PRO> Good luck with that one
[20:02] <GPF_PRO> it Looks like I will be needing to write my own graphics add on unit.
[20:03] <Ecran10> why is that?
[20:03] <sh4rm4^bnc> NIH
[20:03] <GPF_PRO> it seems that every time I need to do something specific like outlining test, shadowing etc its a pain
[20:03] <GPF_PRO> text
[20:04] <GPF_PRO> But i don't want it to execute slower than my mental state in the morning
[20:04] <Ecran10> :))
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[20:06] <GPF_PRO> I already do have some graphic lib code I could extend I guess
[20:10] <ShaoB> Components and Code examples - Free Pascal wiki
[20:11] <Ecran10> it contains a lot of interesting libraries and frameworks
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[20:17] <GPF_PRO> IT has a toon of stuff I can see that will get in the way
[20:21] <GPF_PRO> it has copy writen material all over it..
[20:21] <GPF_PRO> Most likely what i never made it in the lazarus libs
[20:21] <Ecran10> is that Graphics32?
[20:21] <GPF_PRO> oh well.
[20:21] <GPF_PRO> yes
[20:21] <GPF_PRO> its a huge set of units
[20:21] <Ecran10> have never used it
[20:22] <GPF_PRO> it looks like it can do a lot of stuff, I was only looking to avoid some work but it looks like it will be just as much work gettting that to work with my app
[20:22] <GPF_PRO> I need my app to respond quickly due to other time critical events happening.
[20:23] <GPF_PRO> I think I will port one of my libs I used for canny graphics and from their add to it.
[20:25] <Ecran10> do you want to add special effects to the UI?
[20:25] <GPF_PRO> at the moment all I need is for Text with outlining, shadowing etc
[20:25] <GPF_PRO> which I already have but its scatered code all over the place.
[20:26] <GPF_PRO> specifically I want to do a better Outline code than what I have now..
[20:26] <Ecran10> oh ok ok
[20:26] <Ecran10> and also have a clean piece of code running it
[20:27] <GPF_PRO> Currently I use Textout in all the four different angles of one color and then change the color back to the font color and do a textout in the center.
[20:27] <GPF_PRO> That gives me outlined text however, I've noticed at times it does not look good.
[20:28] <GPF_PRO> if the text is small the outline should connect together not overwrite ..
[20:28] <GPF_PRO> currently the text over writes part of the outline if the ffonts get too small
[20:29] <GPF_PRO> I started a whole project just to engineer a unit to do this stuff to find the lazarus Tbitmap/Fpc bitmap does not work correctly in 32 bit mode
[20:29] <GPF_PRO> it has non finished code in it.
[20:30] <GPF_PRO> some one started doing some alpha blending and never property set it up to it could be switched off.
[20:30] <GPF_PRO> so the 32 bit bitmaps in Laz are broken
[20:30] <Ecran10> it means there is a lot of work to do to make the source code of many of the components
[20:30] <Ecran10> to work appropriately
[20:30] <Ecran10> that is great news!
[20:31] <Ecran10> these days would be a great time to head into it and plan to do so
[20:31] <GPF_PRO> I told them about that before and it never went anywhere.
[20:31] <GPF_PRO> Yes, and with that I'll be in monitoring mode
[20:31] <Ecran10> the thing is that for 2 days have been waiting for a review on a pull requests and some comments on JCL
[20:31] <GPF_PRO> yeah, good luck with that one.
[20:32] <Ecran10> if it doesn't work like that, will cancel the pull request
[20:32] <Ecran10> and will make a new one
[20:32] <Ecran10> when did that, they responded very quickly
[20:32] <Ecran10> and there is also the newsgroup, so tomorrow might be a good day
[20:33] <Ecran10> to contact and bother them :))
[20:33] <Ecran10> there is one nice thing on github, it has a "Request review" button
[20:33] <Ecran10> and pressed that one, it probably works like a bell
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[21:35] <John_Ivan> Bungh
[21:35] <John_Ivan> ungh*
[21:36] <John_Ivan> just finished a VN
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[21:45] <Ecran10> hello John_Ivan
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[21:57] <sh4rm4^bnc> VN?
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[22:54] <John_Ivan> free to play if you want.
[22:54] <John_Ivan> it's 4 hours long.
[22:55] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, it's more than what's beneath the surface.
[22:55] <John_Ivan> it's cleverly authored.
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[23:18] <sh4rm4^bnc> when i read "store" i assume i gotta pay
[23:19] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, Steam Store includes purchase related items, sure. but lot of Free stuff too.
[23:21] <sh4rm4^bnc> what is needed to play it ?
[23:22] <sh4rm4^bnc> ah, there we go: window 7 or mac osx
[23:23] <sh4rm4^bnc> but tbh, i wouldn't even download it if there was a linux version
[23:23] <sh4rm4^bnc> since i don't run other ppl's binaries
[23:23] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, just the steam client.
[23:23] <sh4rm4^bnc> everything on my machine (apart from the BIOS and firmware backdoors) i compiled myself from source
[23:23] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, a true jails person I see.
[23:24] <sh4rm4^bnc> jails?
[23:24] <John_Ivan> jails/portage.
[23:24] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, BSD concept. You only get source. You compile.
[23:24] <sh4rm4^bnc> in my case butch
[23:24] <John_Ivan> the latter is for Gentoo
[23:25] <sh4rm4^bnc> yeah, and butch is for sabotage linux :>
[23:25] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, just looked it up. seems it's similar to Alpine Linux
[23:26] <John_Ivan> it also uses busybox and musl libc
[23:26] <John_Ivan> These distributions deal with far too much maintenance for me to dig into.
[23:27] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, I'm either a BSD or plain Debian user.
[23:27] <John_Ivan> and Arch/Fedora if I feel adventurous.
[23:27] <sh4rm4^bnc> fortunately i got enough time to maintain my own distro
[23:27] <sh4rm4^bnc> but yeah i can see that's not for everybody
[23:28] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, but overall, I prefer to sit on a hybrid. A windows core running linux in the same memory space.
[23:28] <John_Ivan> I play games. and I rely a lot on windows binaries
[23:29] <John_Ivan> for me to just go on linux only.
[23:29] <sh4rm4^bnc> though the more i use only source based stuff, it's getting harder and harder to understand the mindset of windows people that just download and execute random binaries from the web
[23:29] <John_Ivan> well, aside from performance and being picky, I don't see the point to compile stuff yourself.
[23:29] <Ecran10> sh4rm4^bnc it is similar to how you download the source :))
[23:30] <sh4rm4^bnc> there's a lot of opensource games though...
[23:30] <sh4rm4^bnc> last i played was openxcom
[23:30] <John_Ivan> I'm an AAA gamer.
[23:30] <John_Ivan> I want big titles.
[23:30] <sh4rm4^bnc> oh, right, you need a reason you shelfed out 500$ for your GPU, gotcha
[23:31] <John_Ivan> this laptop costed me 700$ overall.
[23:31] <sh4rm4^bnc> sounds acceptable
[23:31] sh4rm4^bnc only 2D games
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[23:32] <John_Ivan> 2D is fun. until you see there's a ton of AAA games you could also try.
[23:32] <John_Ivan> which are mostly 3D.
[23:32] <sh4rm4^bnc> i'm usually playing emulators of old 2D consoles
[23:32] <sh4rm4^bnc> what i also like is the AGS engine
[23:32] <sh4rm4^bnc> there's like 2000 free adventure games for it
[23:33] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, that's just a glorified Proton (WINE derivative) with bootstraps, bells and whistles. It does run a whole lot of steam related games, just not everything.
[23:33] <ShaoB> Adventure Game Studio | Games | Quest for Infamy
[23:34] <Ecran10> the issue is more larger
[23:34] <John_Ivan> ?
[23:35] <Ecran10> up until now there wasn't much about playing games on Linux
[23:35] <Ecran10> on one side
[23:35] <Ecran10> on the other side, there is M$ who by developing UWP
[23:35] <Ecran10> pretends to set a new stage for Windows applications
[23:35] <sh4rm4^bnc> .wp UWP
[23:35] <sh4rm4^bnc> .wiki UWP
[23:35] <ShaoB> Wiki: UWP may refer to:
[23:35] <John_Ivan> it's the latest framework
[23:35] <Ecran10> but they also trap those applications in some sort of box
[23:35] <John_Ivan> for developing Win10 apps
[23:36] <Ecran10> and they don't have access to all the features that the current Win32 applications have
[23:36] <sh4rm4^bnc> ah right. the win32 replacement.
[23:36] <Ecran10> yes, that is what M$ dreams of
[23:36] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, not quite. but sure.
[23:36] <Ecran10> and this probably pushed Steam into realizing that without a dedicated operating system for games
[23:36] <Ecran10> there will not be any Steam platform anymore
[23:36] <sh4rm4^bnc> <Ecran10> sh4rm4^bnc it is similar to how you download the source :))
[23:37] <sh4rm4^bnc> just that i can read the source, improve it, and can control there are no backdoors in it
[23:37] <John_Ivan> there's 4 big portions of "mess" in Windows as of currently. UWP, .NET, Win32 and WTL/MFC
[23:37] <John_Ivan> they all do the same thing.
[23:37] <John_Ivan> more or less.
[23:37] <Ecran10> sh4rm4^bnc correct
[23:37] <John_Ivan> I'd add WPF too but eh.
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[23:38] <sh4rm4^bnc> aren't there are also COM, activeX...
[23:38] <Ecran10> M$ follows a political agenda, not one of software development
[23:38] <John_Ivan> that's Win32.
[23:39] <Ecran10> COM is a very interesting technology
[23:39] <sh4rm4^bnc> then there are also these odd pseudo binaries which allows one to start e.g. the control panel via a command
[23:40] <Ecran10> problem with it is that it hasn't been properly explained on how to use it
[23:40] <sh4rm4^bnc> diskmgmt.msc oslt
[23:40] <John_Ivan> subsystems and execution formats.
[23:40] <sh4rm4^bnc> wow, i didnt touch a windows sys in almost 10 years, forgot all the tricks
[23:40] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, it has. it's just ugly.
[23:41] <John_Ivan> it's full of interfaces
[23:41] <Ecran10> yes, it looks ugly because they didn't wrap it well
[23:41] <John_Ivan> which are very badly named.
[23:41] <sh4rm4^bnc> didn't windows 7 remove the WIN+r command prompt ? :)
[23:41] <John_Ivan> if you generally see an "I" prefixed object/class, it's COM likely.
[23:42] <John_Ivan> nope
[23:42] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, I find myself that I hardly need to use COM unless I want to attempt specific operations with the OS' more "funky" portions like the Shell, the search indexer, that kinda shit.
[23:43] <John_Ivan> and when I do, I curse my life for having to deal with COM.
[23:43] <Ecran10> it FPC it doesn't look that bad
[23:43] <Ecran10> in my opinion it can be made to look even better
[23:43] <Ecran10> M$ provided a raw set of routines and functions
[23:44] <Ecran10> and they can do quite something when it comes to COM, but it is hard to use them directly
[23:44] <Ecran10> they have to be wrapped in something more abstract that makes more sense to the application
[23:44] <John_Ivan> if I was rich, I'd just buy a Mac/OSX and not have to deal with all the wonky interfaces :)
[23:45] <Ecran10> there is CORBA :))
[23:45] <John_Ivan> I wouldn't have to deal with drivers. With specific manufacturer firmware. With obsolete APIs. With godforsaken interfaces. etc
[23:45] <John_Ivan> I'd be in a nice controlled environment
[23:45] <John_Ivan> with the CocoaAPI
[23:45] <John_Ivan> and Aqua
[23:46] <sh4rm4^bnc> in linux, there's only the C api, more or less <3
[23:46] <Ecran10> depends on tastes
[23:46] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, the C api is too low level for certain situations and a lot of libraries for some purposes don't exist.
[23:49] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, you're right on the political aspect. it's more to do with competition rather than doing what is meant to be engineeringly correct.
[23:49] <John_Ivan> I for example would've loved everything to be done in C++.
[23:49] <John_Ivan> It's the mid level language with most perfection. Balanced for both low and high level operations.
[23:50] <John_Ivan> With the right libraries, there is no need for other languages.
[23:50] <sh4rm4^bnc> i.e. without STL
[23:50] <John_Ivan> It's only downside is the compiler.
[23:50] <John_Ivan> C++ sucks on windows if it's not using MSVC.
[23:50] <Ecran10> why would it be the compiler? if you keep things simple, things can go smooth
[23:51] <sh4rm4^bnc> C++ takes age to compile
[23:51] <sh4rm4^bnc> compiling a .cc file is like 50-100x slower than a .c file
[23:51] <John_Ivan> because if you're not using MSVC, you're using MinGW and MinGW is a horrible solution. using anything else means lack of library support.
[23:52] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, the STL is more or less C++'s primary lib, without it, you're just using C.
[23:52] <sh4rm4^bnc> what's so horrible about mingw ?
[23:53] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, incompatibilities and problems interfacing with the OS' native APIs.
[23:53] <John_Ivan> interop causes a whole lot of mess and the error reporting is off and misleading.
[23:53] <John_Ivan> what you compile with Mingw might not compile with MSVC, despite being C++
[23:53] <John_Ivan> and vice versa.
[23:54] <John_Ivan> especially when you start using Win32
[23:54] <John_Ivan> the library translations are also problematic if you ever do binary interfacing
[23:54] <John_Ivan> .a vs .lib
[23:55] <John_Ivan> not to mention that, the compiler directive is used a lot in Windows specific examples
[23:55] <John_Ivan> directives not recognized by MinGW
[23:55] <sh4rm4^bnc> so the problem is that mingw is not VC++-like enough?
[23:56] <John_Ivan> no.
[23:56] <John_Ivan> VC++ is the CLR.
[23:56] <John_Ivan> just to make sure we're on the same page.
[23:56] <John_Ivan> aka C++.net
[23:56] <sh4rm4^bnc> i guess the whole point of mingw is not to lock yourself into microsoft APIs
[23:57] <sh4rm4^bnc> when i said VC++ i meant MSVC but ok
[23:57] <sh4rm4^bnc> but i can see that people want to use it with win32 stuff anyways
[23:57] <John_Ivan> the microsoft visual compiler is commonly referred to as the cl.exe in my world.
[16:40] <John_Ivan> zaherdirkey, know what are the most biologically engineered humans on earth?
[16:43] <zaherdirkey> John_Ivan no :3
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[16:46] <John_Ivan> zaherdirkey, Israelis, aka, the Jews for 1.
[16:46] <John_Ivan> zaherdirkey, Arabs for 2.
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[16:47] <John_Ivan> zaherdirkey, Japanese for 3 and some Brazilians/Mexicans.
[16:47] <John_Ivan> for 4.
[16:48] <zaherdirkey> they want to modifiy them? for what?
[16:48] <John_Ivan> zaherdirkey, no. the race has been biologically engineered as part of culture, religion and policy. more specifically, religious police.
[16:48] <John_Ivan> at least in case 1 and 2.
[16:48] <John_Ivan> zaherdirkey, ever heard of
[16:49] <void09> What is this, the Ales Jones show ? :D
[16:49] <void09> Alex*
[16:49] <John_Ivan> Yom Kippur?
[16:50] <John_Ivan> zaherdirkey, I recall somewhere that in jewish tradition, pregnancy is treated significantly different than it is in other countries.
[16:50] <John_Ivan> the female fasts. enters a state of meditation.
[16:50] <John_Ivan> has an increased nutrition of a specific type of food
[16:50] <John_Ivan> among being laid off and to live in a more relaxed and spiritual environment.
[16:51] <zaherdirkey> ok they want us to be more better, or more slaves :P
[16:51] <John_Ivan> zaherdirkey, as a result of this, the offsprings produced tend to be... well... more "stronger" than usual. both mentally, physically and gene wise.
[16:51] <John_Ivan> a better fit
[16:51] <John_Ivan> for survival of the fittest.
[16:52] <John_Ivan> zaherdirkey, anyway, a huge portion of jews are a result of this "tradition/religious" custom
[16:52] <John_Ivan> and it is tremendously beneficial.
[16:52] <John_Ivan> for them at least.
[16:53] <John_Ivan> zaherdirkey, the Arabs have something similar but not as strict.
[16:53] <zaherdirkey> jew is relagion now nation
[16:53] <zaherdirkey> arab is nations
[16:53] <zaherdirkey> not*
[16:53] <John_Ivan> I called them Israeli at first :)
[16:53] <zaherdirkey> ah
[16:53] <zaherdirkey> that long topic, i have to shutdown cause power outage, see u after 3 hours :)
[16:54] <John_Ivan> ok
[16:55] <John_Ivan> zaherdirkey, the Arabs only let the strongest heir of a particular tribe take power unconditionally and over their history, a lot of conflict has existed to establish "who rules"
[16:55] <John_Ivan> they say Islam has been founded by the Sword.
[16:55] <John_Ivan> meanwhile
[16:56] <John_Ivan> the Japanese do another "separation" of biologically engineered people with their education.
[16:56] <John_Ivan> it's a bit of an eliminative sort of approach
[16:56] <John_Ivan> drop down weak students, only let advanced students pass.
[16:56] <John_Ivan> the bar is raised much, much higher than usual.
[16:57] <John_Ivan> so you either fuck up and shame yourself, or you pass and move on.
[16:57] <John_Ivan> and it's not just education
[16:57] <John_Ivan> it's also how they are raised.
[16:58] <John_Ivan> There's more intimate relationship between the mother and child. And it's focused on teaching the child to actually live.
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[16:58] <John_Ivan> So yeah, 3 major nations that "biologically" engineer their people.
[16:58] <John_Ivan> Israeli, Arabs, Japanese.
[16:59] <John_Ivan> as a result of culture + religion
[16:59] <John_Ivan> and some government intervention.
[17:07] <sh4rm4^bnc> the jews also say you're only one of them when your mother is one of them (mitrochondrial DNA)
[17:08] <sh4rm4^bnc> plus they deliberately cut the foreskin of their sons to give them an early trauma likely to develop autistic treats
[17:10] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, I actually am unsure why the last aspect happens. isn't it perhaps to not get involved in things like masturbation?
[17:10] <John_Ivan> religiously, masturbation is seen a bit.... wasteful
[17:11] <John_Ivan> or so they say.
[17:12] <sh4rm4^bnc> i don't think so, if you read the talmud it seems weird sex practices are not undesired
[17:13] <sh4rm4^bnc> they state openly it's ok to have sex with goyim kids for example
[17:15] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, "In the Hebrew Bible
[17:15] <John_Ivan> Circumcision was enjoined upon the biblical patriarch Abraham, his descendants and their slaves as "a token of the covenant" concluded with him by God for all generations, an "everlasting covenant" (Genesis 17:13), thus it is commonly observed by two (Judaism and Islam) of the Abrahamic religions."
[17:16] <John_Ivan> there's no reason given
[17:16] <John_Ivan> it just says that "because God says so and so did Abraham and his followers were all circumcised."
[17:20] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, pretty sure they refer to betrothal. Sex is jumping too high lol. Not to mention girls cannot actually become biologically pregnant unless they're 12 years or older. Not that it's encouraged to be impregnated at that age.
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[22:09] <ShaoB> The duality within religions with Harald Kautz-Vella - YouTube
[22:11] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, I like to diferentiate between "relatable" bookmarks and "lists"
[22:11] <John_Ivan> lists, you will always come back to. as you'll need them.
[22:11] <John_Ivan> relatable bookmarks are the ones you call a graveyard :)
[22:11] <John_Ivan> and it's partially true.
[22:12] <John_Ivan> it's why Pocket was invented.
[22:14] <sh4rm4^bnc> if i bookmark something i most likely never gonna look at it again...
[22:14] <sh4rm4^bnc> what's the shtick with bookmarks ? (using jiddish terms for fun)
[22:14] <sh4rm4^bnc> s/bookmarks/pocket/
[22:15] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, as I said, bookmarks can be separated by conceptual usage. Since lists and references are stuff you come back to and need to keep; other things like articles or "to reads" or "relatable" bookmarks
[22:15] <John_Ivan> tend to never be touched
[22:15] <John_Ivan> Firefox Pocket is a sort of... "RSS-like" feeder
[22:15] <sh4rm4^bnc> and pocket?
[22:15] <John_Ivan> where instead of bookmarking
[22:16] <John_Ivan> you "save to pocket" the article you "Know you won't come back to"
[22:16] <John_Ivan> and Pocket will compile a leaflet
[22:16] <John_Ivan> which will show it to you every time you use firefox
[22:16] <John_Ivan> as a reminder that "hey, you have stuff to read"
[22:16] <sh4rm4^bnc> ah
[22:16] <John_Ivan> "you've bookmarked stuff you wanted to look into, don't let them die"
[22:16] <John_Ivan> that's what they wanted to do with Pocket
[22:17] <John_Ivan> they give you a nice leaflet with dialup-like menus and stuff.
[22:17] <John_Ivan> it's neat.
[22:17] <sh4rm4^bnc> does it save the whole page though ?
[22:17] <John_Ivan> I don't know. I have only seen how it works. I do not use it (yet)
[22:18] <John_Ivan> but I'm well aware of the issue you mentioned with the graveyard. and I also try to keep my bookmarks as "only essentials"
[22:18] <John_Ivan> so that I actually use them.
[22:19] <John_Ivan> I think bookmarks aren't the actual issue to be fair
[22:19] <sh4rm4^bnc> what i see myself confronted with often is that i have tons of tabs with interesting stuff open
[22:19] <sh4rm4^bnc> but there comes a point when i got to cleam em up due to performance issues
[22:19] <John_Ivan> I think it's a matter of separating out what "type" of bookmark it is.
[22:19] <sh4rm4^bnc> so the interesting stuff gets bookmarked... i.e. graveyarded
[22:20] <John_Ivan> let me have a look at my bookmarks and tell you what I have personally.
[22:20] <John_Ivan> so I have a list of "finished" and "to watch" anime bookmarked with MAL. they're lists and I actually return to use them everytime I do anything anime related.
[22:21] <John_Ivan> music is the same. music to me is managed by youtube as playslists, and I bookmark each individual song. helps with searching through them at the address bar, it's a life saver.
[22:21] <John_Ivan> manga, again, lists
[22:21] <John_Ivan> the stuff that I however know I'll unlikely return to
[22:22] <John_Ivan> is this folder here that I have called "x86 Assembly Guide with MASM"
[22:22] <John_Ivan> this.... I think should really go into pocket.
[22:22] <John_Ivan> which should remind me of it every now and then when I run firefox
[22:23] <John_Ivan> and eventually force myself one day to read it, so that I can then take it down
[22:23] <John_Ivan> and possibly place it elsewhere (this is where I'd introduce another type of "bookmark type" and perhaps call it Repository)
[22:23] <John_Ivan> so
[22:23] <John_Ivan> Lists. Information Repository.
[22:23] <John_Ivan> and Pocket
[22:23] <John_Ivan> is what I think is the way to use bookmarks like.
[22:24] <John_Ivan> where Info Repo contains **stuff you've actually read**
[22:24] <John_Ivan> and only want to use as references.
[22:24] <John_Ivan> or to quickly find the website.
[22:26] <sh4rm4^bnc> why you wanna write in masm as opposed to inline asm ?
[22:26] <John_Ivan> lol
[22:27] <John_Ivan> I don't think there's a need to answer that question.
[22:28] <sh4rm4^bnc> *shrug*
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[22:29] <John_Ivan> Most people who actually go for MASM typically do it for the macros
[22:29] <John_Ivan> it does make a difference when you can easily call syscalls
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[22:29] <sh4rm4^bnc> yeah, i found the macro preprocessor the most interesting part of it too
[22:30] <John_Ivan> I wouldn't discard such a feature and nor would I go to another assembler. It's the primary thing I care about.
[22:31] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, readability is probably the most important aspect to me when it comes to any piece of source
[22:32] <John_Ivan> I will refuse to use certain tech if it's readability is poor.
[22:32] <John_Ivan> which is why I'm here.
[22:32] <John_Ivan> Pascal shines compared to the crap syntax they have in #21stCenturyProgrammingLanguages
[22:32] <John_Ivan> I like verbosity
[22:32] <John_Ivan> and standards
[22:33] <John_Ivan> with little to no sugar syntax
[22:33] <John_Ivan> and no 50 ways to do the same thing.
[22:34] <sh4rm4^bnc> i was looking at its macro preprocessor for a hobby assembler i wrote myself
[22:34] <sh4rm4^bnc> but i ended up coding my own C-like preprocessor with multi-line macro support
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[22:43] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, tut tut tut - reinventing the wheel
[22:43] <sh4rm4^bnc> well, the issue is that C preprocessors expand all statements to a single line
[22:44] <sh4rm4^bnc> so to use it i would've needed to add support to statement separators etc to the assembler itself
[22:45] <John_Ivan> are there situations when you actually use assembler often though?
[22:45] <sh4rm4^bnc> in the case of this project, yes
[22:46] <sh4rm4^bnc> since writing a full decompiler is too much work
[23:07] <sh4rm4^bnc> fortunately i can glob on *xwYzfdVTTSQ*
[23:07] <sh4rm4^bnc> otherwise i would haev no way to play/remove this
[23:07] <John_Ivan> minimalistic individual I take it.
[23:08] <sh4rm4^bnc> ah yes, i use a shell, not a file manager if you mean that
[23:09] <John_Ivan> I do too. but I wouldn't download a youtube link if I don't intend to keep it.
[23:09] <sh4rm4^bnc> but i think that comes quite naturally if you use linux on a daily basis
[23:09] <sh4rm4^bnc> when i load youtube links into my browser the whole system bogs down
[23:10] <John_Ivan> Indeed. But when it comes to media, the shell cannot replace much.
[23:10] <sh4rm4^bnc> and sometimes it crashes
[23:10] <sh4rm4^bnc> so i rather use youtube-dl
[23:10] <sh4rm4^bnc> tbh, it's only since about 1 month that i can play youtube videos in the browser *at all*
[23:11] <sh4rm4^bnc> for some reason it never worked in my custom firefox builds
[23:11] <John_Ivan> the firefox building process is complex.
[23:11] <John_Ivan> and not very modular.
[23:11] <sh4rm4^bnc> i suppose the version of libvpx that i had installed wasn't exactly the one firefox wanted
[23:11] <sh4rm4^bnc> but since palemoon removed the option to use system libvpx, it magically works
[23:11] <John_Ivan> If you ever looked at the actual repository up on Mercurial
[23:12] <John_Ivan> It's chaos. that's all I have to say.
[23:12] <sh4rm4^bnc> hah, i looked at the source tree extracted on my hdd quite often
[23:12] <sh4rm4^bnc> it's a real mess
[23:13] <John_Ivan> I needed to cherry pick certain parts of their repos just to compile SeaMonkey
[23:13] <John_Ivan> it was a nightmare. Never again.
[23:13] <sh4rm4^bnc> parts of chrome, embedded sources of libraries, even one that is called "WTF"
[23:13] <John_Ivan> I remember that one.
[23:13] <John_Ivan> When looking through their python builder.
[23:13] <sh4rm4^bnc> my build recipe for firefox is like 300 lines, iirc
[23:14] <sh4rm4^bnc> the biggest WTF though is that they require autoconf 1.x a like 20 year old version
[23:14] <sh4rm4^bnc> and python virtualenv
[23:15] <John_Ivan> Based on my experience with getting SeaMonkey up, their builder is done like that because it's actually not really a builder. It's a scaffolding tooll.
[23:15] <John_Ivan> tool.*
[23:15] <sh4rm4^bnc> it looks like it's deliberately made really hard
[23:16] <John_Ivan> It prepares repositories and versioning as well as the actual make files based on what you want.
[23:16] <sh4rm4^bnc> so it's opensource on the paper, but to get it to compile yourself you gotta be a real crack
[23:16] <sh4rm4^bnc> but apparently it wasn't hard enough already, so they added rust to the mix
[23:17] <John_Ivan> I think that's more of a fad.
[23:17] <mischi> 1111
[23:17] <John_Ivan> "Rust is cool. We have some rust programmers. So why not."
[23:17] <sh4rm4^bnc> i hope so, but it doesn't look that way
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[23:18] <sh4rm4^bnc> the same way i hope the coronavirus BS is a fad
[23:19] <John_Ivan> It is a fad and it can easily be proven, but I wouldn't say the virus itself doesn't exist.
[23:19] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, "The Eyes In The Darkness" is prime time example.
[23:19] <sh4rm4^bnc> what's that ?
[23:20] <John_Ivan> A book. Written in 1981.
[23:20] <sh4rm4^bnc> btw, it was mozilla that developed rust
[23:20] <sh4rm4^bnc> they pumped millions of dollars into it
[23:20] <John_Ivan> It details, word for word, exactly what coronavirus is. Roughly to happen 40 years later.
[23:21] <John_Ivan> The nation. The town. The symptoms. All too accurately.
[23:21] <John_Ivan> Even the year.
[23:21] <sh4rm4^bnc> wow
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[23:24] <sh4rm4^bnc> right. they just needed some time to educate people via propaganda brainwash and social engineering to become docile sheep
[23:24] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, so whether this conspiracy is true or not, I do have serious suspicions.
[23:24] <John_Ivan> and I think it's very likely that everything was just a sham.
[23:24] <John_Ivan> was/is.
[23:25] <sh4rm4^bnc> of course it's true. this virus is less dangerous than your average flu
[23:25] <sh4rm4^bnc> yet people are incarcerated for months into their homes
[23:26] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, I believe the US is behind this, with China in their pocket.
[23:26] <sh4rm4^bnc> well, the US is in the pockets of israel
[23:27] <John_Ivan> The US is "known" for "imitating" controversial "situational mimics"
[23:27] <sh4rm4^bnc> even trump. supposedly the good guy, received 1.5 billion dollars from AIPAC for the 1026 campaign
[23:27] <sh4rm4^bnc> *2016
[23:28] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, I'm not so certain if Israel has such power over the US. But I do agree some "interesting" deeds have been settled between the two.
[23:33] <ShaoB> Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty - Wikipedia
[23:34] <John_Ivan> I mean, I don't need to really read into this (though I did) - but the mere fact that a treaty on how war is to be handled already tells me that there's no conflict in the world anymore as "someone" already has won.
[23:34] <John_Ivan> I would not be surprised if a lot of conspiracies are true.
[23:34] <John_Ivan> US and Russia "bearing" their teeth at each other? Sounds like puppeteering.
[23:35] <Jo-Anna> I heard that people in Israel are having protests lately
[23:35] <John_Ivan> And the sheep take in the mass media.
[23:36] <sh4rm4^bnc> "Through the Press we have gained the power to influence while remaining ourselves in the shade; thanks to the Press we have got the GOLD in our hands, notwithstanding that we have had to gather it out of the
[23:36] <sh4rm4^bnc> oceans of blood and tears. But it has paid us, though we have sacrificed many of our people. Each victim on our side is worth in the sight of God a thousand GOYIM. "
[00:06] <ShaoB> The Myth of the Big Business / Nazi Axis | National Vanguard
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[00:08] <sh4rm4^bnc> "What Schacht did introduce was the MEFO bill. Between 1934 and 1938 12,000,000 bills had been issued at 3,000,000 bills per year. MEFO bills were used specifically to facilitate the exchange of goods.[69]"
[00:09] <Jo-Anna> I miss the days when this channel was about pascal...
[00:11] <sh4rm4^bnc> the sounds of silence ?
[00:17] <John_Ivan> I'm with sh4rm4^bnc. A channel that is offtopic is preferable rather than complete silence.
[00:18] <John_Ivan> Jo-Anna, you sound..........nyemetskyi. Are you perhaps German by any chance?
[00:20] <John_Ivan> Nothing personal, but I do have a tendency to "smell" a nyemetskyi from miles away. Call it racist if you want, but I don't intend to be discriminative. I just recall spending a lot of time conversing with Germans and many a while didn't quite turn out very pleasant.
[00:23] <John_Ivan> Simply because I had to elongate my words like this, explain every single concept, paragraph, terminology and stretch to great deals of lengths to settle on an argument which originally started as a result of the German stating "X is not Y" and ended with the German confessing "X is Y... but it isn't Y in Z circumstances" about a few hours later. The sentences/text typed out were about this long and this thick whenever I needed to
[00:23] <John_Ivan> speak to said Germans or they would just dismiss me as speaking out of my ass. Really interesting individuals. Almost like they cannot simply understand the meaning of incurring from dialogue or just simply "taking the hint". Inflexible thinking is what I call it.
[00:25] <John_Ivan> I pointed you out as a memory where a German too would dismiss offtopic conversations in the channel, despite knowingly (or not?) that it has been silent for pretty much 90% of the time.
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[02:27] <GPF_PRO> Out of curiousity, I learned something..
[02:27] <GPF_PRO> I didn't think it was possible ! ;)
[02:28] <GPF_PRO> The TextHeight in the canvas acounts for the orientation
[02:29] <GPF_PRO> I don't remember it doing that before.. I thought it was only horizontal height.
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[05:25] <ShaoB> Earthquake KEPULAUAN TALAUD, INDONESIA on 2020-09-09 03:41, UTC, magnitude 5.5 mb, depth 51 km, lat 4.00, lon 126.74
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[09:11] <ShaoB> Earthquake KEPULAUAN TALAUD, INDONESIA on 2020-09-09 07:18, UTC, magnitude 5.6 mw, depth 60 km, lat 4.11, lon 126.72
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[19:55] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, bad. I went to the doctor to get a different kind of medication because the effect of the current SSRIs are wearing off after 2.5 years
[19:56] <John_Ivan> and they refuse to give me a different class of medication because I have to do "therapy" first.
[19:57] <John_Ivan> it's medication to prevent your neurons from wasting serotonin by blocking the reuptake pipe in the synaptic cleft of each neuron and axiom.
[19:57] <John_Ivan> it's to allow more serotonin to roam freely when neurons transmit signals between each other
[19:57] <John_Ivan> resulting in better signalling
[19:57] <John_Ivan> brb
[19:57] <John_Ivan> food
[19:58] <Ecran10> ah, very interesting
[19:58] <Ecran10> gives fluency to a flux from the sound of it
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[20:25] <John_Ivan> back
[20:26] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, yeah, for my mental disorder, it is suspected that part of the reason it happens is due to low serotonin levels
[20:26] <John_Ivan> so these pills help tremendously
[20:26] <John_Ivan> but
[20:26] <John_Ivan> as I said, I've used them for 2.5 years.
[20:26] <John_Ivan> their efficacy has drastically reduced compared to before
[20:26] <John_Ivan> I can feel the symptoms coming back
[20:27] <John_Ivan> and I went to the doctor to ask for different medication (there's a good few classes of SSRIs)
[20:27] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, they instead suggest me to therapy
[20:27] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, don't you think that's stupid?
[20:27] <Ecran10> 2 sec please
[20:27] <Ecran10> back
[20:28] <Ecran10> what do they want to do with the therapy?
[20:28] <Ecran10> aren't there any food items that can increase the serotonin levels?
[20:28] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, there are but they don't work for long and aren't as effective as the SSRIs
[20:29] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, therapy is a session where I talk to a psychiatrist about my "issues" and he'll provide "advice" on how to solve them.
[20:29] <John_Ivan> it's a 1 hour session. at 80$.
[20:29] <Ecran10> 80 bucks
[20:30] <John_Ivan> yeah. and they usually stretch it for 12 sessions.
[20:30] <John_Ivan> over the course of a few weeks
[20:30] <Ecran10> maybe with meditation it works
[20:30] <John_Ivan> It doesn't.
[20:30] <Ecran10> probably it takes a while, but the effects can be good
[20:31] <John_Ivan> That's more or less what the doctor says.
[20:31] <Ecran10> there is one issue when it comes to meditation
[20:32] <Ecran10> in that it is known the one that meditates cand get angry
[20:32] <Ecran10> because of all sorts of things that come up from the mind
[20:33] <Ecran10> but it passes away in time
[20:33] <John_Ivan> Meanwhile I am one that believes in physicalism. It's a physical problem. A lack of good transmission in the brain. Suggesting "meditation" to fix poor transmission is like going to a witchdoctor for help.
[20:33] <John_Ivan> So hearing such advice from the doctor infuriates me.
[20:33] <Ecran10> how much time? can't really say, depends on how deep you dig
[20:33] <John_Ivan> When all I want is different medication which I know works.
[20:34] <Ecran10> don't want to press the meditation button for too long, but there is this thing from the standpoint of physicalism
[20:34] <Ecran10> the mind can restructure the way the brain is wired
[20:35] <Ecran10> and there are multiple operation modes of the mind
[20:35] <Ecran10> and using all sorts of techniques through which might be also numbered the meditation part
[20:36] <John_Ivan> I know. It's called neuroplasticity but that's to the level of such randomness that it's comparable to entropy. But that isn't a solution.
[20:36] <John_Ivan> That's putting a plaster over a wound without even knowing what the actual issue is.
[20:36] <Ecran10> can help rewiring and along with that comes a different view in which the serotonin can get back to normal
[20:36] <John_Ivan> And as an individual I do not accept such a solution.
[20:36] <Ecran10> ok ok
[20:36] <John_Ivan> If they won't give me meds, I'll go to a different doctor.
[20:37] <John_Ivan> I'm tired of human ignorance.
[20:37] <Ecran10> was thinking that maybe sports can improve this serotonin levels
[20:38] <John_Ivan> It does. But as I said, just like with food that increases serotonin level - it works **for a mere 2-3 hours**
[20:38] <John_Ivan> then everything goes back to normal.
[20:38] <John_Ivan> whereas with the SSRIs, it's consistenly keeping the symptoms at bay. they still happen, but the frequency is MUCH, much less often.
[20:39] <Ecran10> but if you change the doctors
[20:40] <Ecran10> won't they request a proof from the previous doctor or the previous prescription?
[20:40] <John_Ivan> no
[20:41] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, also, increasing serotonin via supplements or food can trigger Serotonin Syndrome which is a life/death experience. Almost like a seizure. It's not recommended.
[20:41] <John_Ivan> They even mention on the SSRIs to NOT attempt to increase serotonin levels.
[20:42] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, it's an imbalance of neurotransmitters. And these fools don't understand that. Because they simply follow governmental procedures.
[20:43] <Ecran10> man, there is also this Western medicine that recommends all sorts of things amongst which some of them
[20:43] <Ecran10> are sometimes not that appropriate as they say
[20:43] <John_Ivan> I don't care, I go by what I personally feel.
[20:43] <Ecran10> medicine is not the same on this planet
[20:45] <Ecran10> what's the plan?
[20:45] <Ecran10> will you go to change the doctor?
[20:47] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, obviously. I **KNOW** therapy is useless. It's not like I never went.
[20:47] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, I had a few sessions before. Waste of my time and money.
[20:47] <John_Ivan> I am not making the same mistake again.
[20:49] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, you don't solve mental disorders through communication.
[20:51] <Ecran10> don't know about that
[20:51] <Ecran10> depends also on what you believe
[20:51] <Ecran10> faith is also something that matters very much
[20:51] <Ecran10> which many doctors call "placebo effect"
[20:51] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, in fact, I wish there was a mechanism which would allow humans to experience a mental disorder for themselves for a week without being able to lift it off.
[20:51] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, and I'd be there sitting in front of them telling them
[20:51] <John_Ivan> "did you say you want therapy? therapy is good."
[20:52] <John_Ivan> No no, the pills have side effects. I'll settle you for a therapy session.
[20:52] <John_Ivan> You'll be better after a session or a few.
[20:52] <John_Ivan> I would be the happiest person on earth if I could do that. To all the people that believe therapy helps.
[20:53] <Ecran10> don't know how this SSRI feels
[20:53] <Ecran10> it probably implies some feeling disturbances
[20:54] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, sorry. I'm not one much for faith. I'm a cold logic individual that only aims for pragmatic approaches.
[20:54] <John_Ivan> Anything that is uncertain counts as bogus.
[20:54] <Ecran10> in my opinion, all these mental states that are not desirable come with some undesirable feelings
[20:54] <Ecran10> the mind is uncertain
[20:55] <Ecran10> i.e. programming is not as certain as is uncertain
[20:55] <John_Ivan> I doubt. Especially when states such as the mind/software working "as it should."
[20:55] <John_Ivan> exist*
[20:55] <Ecran10> it has its mysteries in that in practice you can write precise code that doesn't work
[20:55] <Ecran10> and you know you wrote it correctly and theoretically it should work
[20:56] <John_Ivan> I'm not of that opinion, sorry.
[20:56] <John_Ivan> I believe objective things remain objective. No mystery.
[20:56] <John_Ivan> What is written in stone, is written in stone.
[20:56] <John_Ivan> Shake the stone all you want, you will not remove the writing.
[20:57] <John_Ivan> Code that works is code that works. Code that doesn't work but you believe it works is simply a flaw with the programmer, not the code.
[20:57] <John_Ivan> And code that doesn't work is code that doesn't work.
[20:58] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, all of this is backed up by math.
[20:59] <Ecran10> it might be backed up by math
[20:59] <Ecran10> but it is about how the mind perceives all this
[20:59] <Ecran10> i.e. you are dealing with something supposedly precise that doesn't work
[20:59] <Ecran10> though you wrote precise source code and it doesn't work
[21:00] <John_Ivan> the mind, like everything that is physical, follows physics rules.
[21:00] <Ecran10> in my opinion, the mind can handle more easy the fact that the source code is actually uncertain in that spot
[21:00] <John_Ivan> diffusion. fluid dynamics. conduction. transmission. neural networks. etc.
[21:00] <Ecran10> not necessarily the personally written source code, but the one behind and used by that source code
[21:01] <Ecran10> yes, but we all know that science hasn't discovered it all
[21:01] <Ecran10> and that is on one hand a good thing
[21:02] <Ecran10> because not knowing something makes the mind open to mystery
[21:02] <Ecran10> and the mind needs mysteries and stories to function
[21:02] <Ecran10> take a look at little children
[21:02] <Ecran10> they all like stories
[21:02] <Ecran10> :>
[21:02] <Ecran10> and their world is designed by the stories
[21:02] <Ecran10> we shouldn't go far from that as growing up because something inside the mind feels sad and bad about it
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[21:07] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, apologies. I am of a different opinion/perspective.
[21:07] <John_Ivan> I believe much of everything has already been discovered.
[21:08] <John_Ivan> Uncertainties exist in the world as a result of stupidity and incompetence.
[21:08] <Ecran10> :)) that is true to some degree
[21:09] <John_Ivan> Because just like how a complicated die in an IC chip can be accurately CNC'd to flawlesly work for years and run such complicated paths
[21:09] <John_Ivan> the same way you can do things in the world. It just isn't wanted to be that way :)
[21:10] <John_Ivan> And it is exactly for reasons like this, where a doctor recommends something he actually has followed up on a governmental procedure scheme
[21:10] <John_Ivan> that individuals are not getting the treatment they should be getting.
[21:10] <John_Ivan> They get "all in one box" solution.
[21:10] <John_Ivan> Here, 20 plasters, for your cough.
[21:10] <John_Ivan> Your fever will go away.
[21:10] <John_Ivan> Just wait 4 days
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[21:10] <John_Ivan> And magically, 4 days later you feel better.
[21:10] <John_Ivan> Good job.
[21:10] <John_Ivan> "Doctor."
[21:11] <John_Ivan> Meanwhile individual B gets <insert_name_of_pill_here> and gets better in 1 or 2 days.
[21:12] <John_Ivan> This is the exact same situation here. I'm recommended therapy.
[21:15] <sh4rm4^bnc> basically the pharma industry invented a theory that psychiatric diseases are due to brain chemistry disfunction, so they can be treated with a pill
[21:15] <sh4rm4^bnc> it's never been proven
[21:15] <sh4rm4^bnc> and every 5 years or so their catalogue of mental illnesses gets bigger and bigger
[21:16] <John_Ivan> ah. then I can dismiss it.
[21:16] <sh4rm4^bnc> iirc these days the market for psychiatric drugs is bloated to $300 billion
[21:17] <sh4rm4^bnc> if you're stressed because of your job, it's classified as a mental illness and you get a drug prescription
[21:17] <sh4rm4^bnc> and the state pays for it with money rented from the world bank with interest
[21:19] <Ecran10> the beloved pharma industry
[21:19] <John_Ivan> I am surprised how a "doctor" has managed to arrive at this conclusion ("psychiatric diseases are due to brain chemistry disfunction, so they can be treated with a pill")
[21:19] <John_Ivan> when the brain consists of far more than just chemistry.
[21:20] <sh4rm4^bnc> psychiatrics aren't real doctors
[21:20] <sh4rm4^bnc> they're just wanking off of unproven theories
[21:20] <sh4rm4^bnc> and freud was a fraud too
[21:21] <sh4rm4^bnc> he got big money from pharma to advertise cocaine as a solution to mental issues
[21:22] <sh4rm4^bnc> btw when he publicized his theories in germany he got ejected from the committee of psychiatrics
[21:22] <sh4rm4^bnc> but then the yankees picked them up and turned him into a star
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[21:23] <Ecran10> citing: "wanking off of unproven theories" :)))
[21:24] <Ecran10> both Freud and Jung have been financed by Rockefeller
[21:24] <Ecran10> that is interesting and good to know
[21:24] <sh4rm4^bnc> i wonder what their race... uh religion is
[21:24] <John_Ivan> So my beliefs that everyone in the medical industry is a crook despite their conduct has been correct.
[21:24] <John_Ivan> Thanks for confirming that for me.
[21:25] <sh4rm4^bnc> the only non-crook is DR. HAMER
[21:25] <John_Ivan> I mean, I should know. I know friends who went to other countries just to become doctors.
[21:25] <John_Ivan> Clearly a good reason existed for not becoming one in the current country.
[21:25] <John_Ivan> shhhhhhhhhhpaga.
[21:26] John_Ivan shakes head
[21:26] <John_Ivan> I'll just get a perscription for a different doctor and leave it at that.
[21:26] <John_Ivan> from*
[21:26] <John_Ivan> I don't like to beat around the bush longer.
[21:28] <Ecran10> John_Ivan :)) "shpaga" :))
[21:29] <Ecran10> let me tell you one case
[21:29] <Ecran10> where the doctor recommended someone in my family "Simvastatin"
[21:29] <Ecran10> and forgot to say that you cannot eat grapefruit while taking this drug
[21:30] <John_Ivan> my SSRI mentions the same thing. grapefruit is forbidden.
[21:30] <John_Ivan> go on.
[21:30] <Ecran10> because it causes internal bleeding
[21:30] <sh4rm4^bnc> they're MAO blockers?
[21:30] <Ecran10> the person found out on the internet the issue
[21:30] <Ecran10> and told the family doctor and she said "well, didn't know that, sorry" :))
[21:31] <John_Ivan> MAOs are pretty dangerous compared to the new generation of drugs
[21:31] <Ecran10> so have to be pretty carefull about these drugs they make up
[21:32] <sh4rm4^bnc> the documentary i linked also talks about how they fake their studies
[21:32] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, in the zoloft that I take, it is theorized that grapefruit will increase the sertraline absorption by the intestine which results in higher potency of the dosage. More than 200mg of sertraline is known to be lethal.
[21:37] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, it seems that the good old elder's wisdom remains true even up till now:
[21:37] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, "vai de tine daca ajungi pe mana doctorului" :))
[21:37] <sh4rm4^bnc> translation pls
[21:38] <John_Ivan> "god help you if you end up in the hands of the medics/doctors"
[21:38] <John_Ivan> it's generally a proverb whereby it's better to treasure your health and avoid anything that will result in an illness.
[21:40] <sh4rm4^bnc> makes sense
[21:41] <sh4rm4^bnc> because according to hamer's german new medicine whenever you have symptoms, you're already in the healing phase
[21:42] <sh4rm4^bnc> because all "diseases" have 2 stages
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[21:42] <sh4rm4^bnc> a conflict-active, stressed phase, that helps you to resolve the conflict, and then a curative, vagotone phase where you recover (that's when you get aches)
[21:44] <John_Ivan> I too have a two stage theory about how you can cure capitalist syndrome.
[21:44] <John_Ivan> 1. Take away his money.
[21:45] <John_Ivan> This is the withdrawal phase, whereby you piss off a capitalist pig.
[21:45] <ShaoB> The Five Biological Laws - The Foundation of GNM
[21:45] <John_Ivan> 2. Hang him.
[21:45] <John_Ivan> The last phase where you get rid of said pig.
[21:45] <sh4rm4^bnc> "Every SBS-Significant Biological Special Program runs in two phases provided there is a resolution of the conflict."
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[21:46] <John_Ivan> If the individual reacts positively (anger, aggression, annoyance) to said actions
[21:46] <John_Ivan> diagnosis has been complete and the conclusion is that he suffers from capitalist syndrome.
[21:46] <John_Ivan> Phase 1 can be replaced with imposing communism.
[21:47] <Ecran10> back
[21:47] <Ecran10> 2 sec to read
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[21:48] <Ecran10> John_Ivan :)) haha, the good old wisdom, yes, very good point
[21:49] <sh4rm4^bnc> casting pearls before swine
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[21:51] <Ecran10> sh4rm4^bnc nice one :>
[21:52] <sh4rm4^bnc> :)
[21:53] <Ecran10> John_Ivan :)) you are probably referring to those wild capitalists aka Soros
[21:53] <Ecran10> * i.e.
[21:53] <Ecran10> and to others alike that used capitalism just as a mask to do mass frauds and stealing
[21:53] <John_Ivan> I'm referring to capitalism in general. I'm a communist.
[21:54] <John_Ivan> I don't like the system we live in whereby everything is influenced by money or a currency.
[21:54] <sh4rm4^bnc> you like to have a central government ?
[21:54] <sh4rm4^bnc> one that takes away all your possessions ?
[21:55] <John_Ivan> If we're talking enterprise, sure.
[21:55] <sh4rm4^bnc> that's communism
[21:55] <John_Ivan> Businesses shouldn't be owned by people.
[21:55] <sh4rm4^bnc> also all your liberties, as they see fit
[21:55] <Ecran10> have you ever seen in politics a party that is neither left-winged, nor right-winged, but central/in the center?
[21:55] <sh4rm4^bnc> no? if you produce a piece of software, shouldnt you be able to sell it ?
[21:55] <John_Ivan> No, your liberties taken as possession is not communism anymore. It's dictatorship.
[21:56] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, no.
[21:56] <sh4rm4^bnc> communism is dictatorship
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[21:56] <John_Ivan> A misconception.
[21:56] <Ecran10> depends if you refer to: how it is applied or how it has been applied; or how it is viewed theoretically
[21:56] <John_Ivan> > no? if you produce a piece of software, shouldnt you be able to sell it ?
[21:57] <John_Ivan> that is the mindset I am speaking of.
[21:57] <John_Ivan> Now imagine that mindset not existing.
[21:57] <John_Ivan> wouldn't we have a much nicer world? :)
[21:57] <John_Ivan> Whereby the goal isn't money. But quality.
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[21:57] <Ecran10> so the software wouldn't be sold?
[21:57] <sh4rm4^bnc> traditionally one would create something, e.g. pottery, and then exchange it for potatoes
[21:57] <Ecran10> but for free?
[21:58] <John_Ivan> If people don't compete for power with resources/money, the other option is to compete in intellect.
[21:58] <John_Ivan> that, or rebel.
[21:58] <sh4rm4^bnc> in communism, the central government takes away your pottery and if you're lucky give you something to eat
[21:58] <Ecran10> quality is indeed a problem these days
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[21:59] <Ecran10> but why do we have to compete?
[21:59] <John_Ivan> Some people like competition. That much can't be denied. It's human nature.
[22:00] <John_Ivan> But competitions need to be healthy. Not oppressive.
[22:00] <sh4rm4^bnc> if you're unlucky they give you a headshot like mao or stalin did
[22:00] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, your view of communism is tainted by what happened in history. be assured that's not the kind of communism I support. I speak or Marxism.
[22:00] <sh4rm4^bnc> who was marx ?
[22:00] <sh4rm4^bnc> a rothschild cousin
[22:01] <Ecran10> to some degree that is true, but competition itself is a thing that has the tendency to encompass and control the outcome to a local setting in the hands of the winners
[22:01] <Ecran10> while collaboration is more advantageous for everybody
[22:01] <Ecran10> and opens up the mind and the world to new ideas, new things
[22:01] <Ecran10> in my opinion, collaboration comprises competition
[22:02] <John_Ivan> as long as money isn't involved, sure.
[22:02] <John_Ivan> or enterprise/business.
[22:02] <Ecran10> i.e. in the US, the factories in the industrial era were owned by the factory workers
[22:02] <Ecran10> and they all had interest to work over there
[22:03] <John_Ivan> sounds like socialism.
[22:03] <Ecran10> a very interesting form of collaboration
[22:03] <Ecran10> probably the solution would be to take from all these systems what is really nice
[22:03] <John_Ivan> I agree.
[22:03] <Ecran10> and had stand out to work, tested throughout the time, for all the people, not for a bunch of crazies such as the Rothschilds and Rockefellers
[22:03] <Ecran10> and compile something new
[22:04] <John_Ivan> since communism alone isn't the only thing I support.
[22:04] <Ecran10> but at the center of it should be the spirit of love not in the sense of sex
[22:05] <Ecran10> but in the sense of caring for the human and for the deep understanding of the human nature
[22:05] <John_Ivan> sense of ownership and belonging. a community.
[22:05] <Ecran10> on as many levels as possible
[22:05] <John_Ivan> commu-nism :)
[22:05] <Ecran10> another way to make up the rules for such a system would be to take
[22:06] <Ecran10> all the vices and erroneous behaviours i.e. greed, gluttony
[22:06] <Ecran10> and starting from this, to check out how the system has to be built in order to not exaggerate
[22:06] <Ecran10> and reach these things
[22:07] <Ecran10> or at least the system to have the tendency not to encourage such behaviors
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[22:07] <John_Ivan> that would require a prototype. which is what china is currently doing.
[22:11] <John_Ivan> I wouldn't care. 40 years + my youth consists as my entire life already gone. Not like taking my house away will make a difference. I'll be gone anyway. And it's not like my offsprings will not work themselves for their own stuff.
[22:11] <sh4rm4^bnc> last example is venezuela
[22:12] <John_Ivan> You've spent 60 years paying for your house. All for what.
[22:12] <John_Ivan> To end up dying in said house?
[22:12] <John_Ivan> Money doesn't have much value to me
[22:12] <sh4rm4^bnc> so you can live 20 more years without paying it off, and so your kids have something
[22:12] <Ecran10> in Venezuela they had a lot of problem with the oil and can't forget this: a box of 3 condoms had the cost of 700 USD
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[22:12] <Ecran10> a few years back
[22:13] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, amusingly enough, in the **current** system people still pay off stuff even after being near pension and not all kids have actual inheritance
[22:13] <John_Ivan> so what difference does my system have in comparison to the current system :D ?
[22:13] <sh4rm4^bnc> your system ? you mean the marx-rothschild system, right ?
[22:14] <John_Ivan> the one described by the manifesto.
[22:14] <John_Ivan> I've seen far too many people chasing money to only end up of old age and realize that these people have absolutely no depth to them.
[22:15] <John_Ivan> No hobbies. No actual interesting aspects to them.
[22:15] <John_Ivan> Or any sort of creativity.
[22:15] <sh4rm4^bnc> the enemy of the manifesto is the bourgeoisie
[22:15] <Ecran10> the depth comes from spirituality
[22:15] <Ecran10> interest for this part of life
[22:15] <sh4rm4^bnc> i.e. middle-income familes
[22:15] <John_Ivan> Just "money", "buy valuables" and then stagnation.
[22:15] <John_Ivan> I dislike that mindset.
[22:15] <sh4rm4^bnc> people that have enough "credit" so they can live happily
[22:16] <sh4rm4^bnc> give a good education to their kids, etc
[22:16] <John_Ivan> sorry. the education is taken in the hands of the state in the current system.
[22:16] <John_Ivan> so I don't see that a good enough reason.
[22:16] <sh4rm4^bnc> communism is the concept that everyone is a poor nobody, plus an almighty government
[22:17] <John_Ivan> I like being a poor nobody as long as everyone is one too.
[22:17] <sh4rm4^bnc> why would you want a government to educate your kids?
[22:17] <sh4rm4^bnc> so they can brainwash them?
[22:17] <John_Ivan> don't they already do? in the current system we live in?
[22:17] <Ecran10> who should educate the children?
[22:17] <sh4rm4^bnc> govern mente - govern the mind
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[22:17] <sh4rm4^bnc> maybe the parents themselves, if they can afford it
[22:18] <Ecran10> sh4rm4^bnc oh man :)) that is a long discussion
[22:18] <Ecran10> sh4rm4^bnc that works only for parents that have an education themselves
[22:18] <John_Ivan> indeed. parents teaching children is already a problem.
[22:18] <sh4rm4^bnc> Ecran10, actually in the US 8 or 9 out of the 10 points in the manifesto are already law
[22:19] <sh4rm4^bnc> Ecran10, why ? what do the kids need to know so desperately?
[22:19] <John_Ivan> I'm surprised you ask.
[22:19] <Ecran10> i.e. do you have the time to learn the little children to write?
[22:20] <Ecran10> it is a lot of work with children
[22:20] <sh4rm4^bnc> if you're a bourgeoise, then yes
[22:20] <Ecran10> yes, very true
[22:20] <sh4rm4^bnc> because it means you're well off financially
[22:20] <Ecran10> what do we do with the many people that don't have that chance?
[22:20] <sh4rm4^bnc> so you can afford to take a half day off for a couple years
[22:20] <Ecran10> very good point
[22:20] <sh4rm4^bnc> the other half day the kids can go out and play
[22:20] <Ecran10> :))
[22:21] <John_Ivan> Children need to be taught a lot more than they're being fed in school. It is usually things mothers and fathers should teach. But oh wait. They're busy working from 9 to 5.
[22:21] <sh4rm4^bnc> they probably learn more playing then in school anyways
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[22:21] <Ecran10> John_Ivan or better: playing with the phones and showing off at the Mall
[22:21] <Ecran10> that is the parents
[22:22] <Ecran10> now we are dealing with a lot of people that think they know much
[22:22] <Ecran10> or many things because they have at home a 4K TV, a great car
[22:22] <Ecran10> and a nice looking MacOS on the table that is well put on the table
[22:22] <John_Ivan> "Power/Wealth" has become the new "smart" individual.
[22:22] <John_Ivan> :)
[22:22] <Ecran10> along with the minimalist look of the home
[22:22] <sh4rm4^bnc> my father knows how to fix motorbikes, but he could never show it to me because he had to go to work
[22:23] <sh4rm4^bnc> and i went to public school to get brainwashed with the goverment-made education plan
[22:23] <Ecran10> but showing off doesn't really solve any real problems (i.e. engineering problems)
[22:23] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, I'm not speaking profession. Here's an example of the things I'm talking about that a child should learn from a mother or a father.
[22:23] <sh4rm4^bnc> so i learned about the oh-so-great freud and einstein
[22:23] <sh4rm4^bnc> (both jews)
[22:23] <mischi> with the current level of background knowledge in natural science, the idea of homeschooling does not sound very promising.
[22:24] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, first and foremost, to never dismiss anything for being considered worthless to not look into.
[22:24] <Ecran10> mischi agree with you
[22:24] <Ecran10> can't deny professors completly
[22:24] <Ecran10> everybody is mad on them
[22:24] <Ecran10> but many times it is not their fault
[22:25] <John_Ivan> second, teach them curiosity and what it means to actually understand the society and hierarchial system we live in.
[22:25] <Ecran10> the system is built in such a way that it makes things crappy
[22:25] <John_Ivan> third - teach them respect and humbleness. followed by resource management.
[22:25] <Ecran10> John_Ivan good points
[22:25] <sh4rm4^bnc> the only non-BS stuff i learned in school was languages and math
[22:25] <sh4rm4^bnc> the rest was propaganda
[22:26] <Ecran10> sh4rm4^bnc :)) :)) my man, very true, especially when it comes to history
[22:26] <Ecran10> science is also hiding some things not to be known by the many
[22:26] <John_Ivan> fourth - teach them what it means to be their actual gender. I don't mean indepth, after all, most identities already take care of themselves. I mean with the opposite sex. Educate your child what it means to actually love and how to not end up in pitfalls of courting.
[22:26] <John_Ivan> among many. I'll stop here.
[22:27] <Ecran10> but even if science hides some things, no one can say more bad things about it
[22:27] <Ecran10> because everything we have around is thanks to science
[22:29] <John_Ivan> The sound.... of progress...... and stability :)
[22:29] <John_Ivan> Empty your mind. Completely. To the point there's no possibility of focus.
[22:29] <Ecran10> at the current moment, many parents complain that their children have ADHD
[22:29] <Ecran10> but what they do not confese is that they dump their kids with smartphones
[22:29] <Ecran10> and computers and TVs
[22:29] <John_Ivan> And then release. For a crystal clear mind.
[22:29] <mischi> natural sciences are open for anything with some evidence. Evidence is the key for all science based progress
[22:30] <Ecran10> and there you have a bunch of little crazies that can't keep focus on anything
[22:30] <Ecran10> and terrorize the professors and teachers in schools
[22:30] <Ecran10> mischi yes, that is true
[22:31] <Ecran10> problem is that there are some groups in science that based on money
[22:31] <sh4rm4^bnc> mischi: so where's the evidence that the speed of light is constant ?
[22:31] <Ecran10> want to say what is scientific and what is not
[22:31] <Ecran10> and in my opinion, that is not a good thing
[22:31] <sh4rm4^bnc> or that we derived from apes ?
[22:31] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, as a person who doesn't agree with the current system, I agree. But let me also mention that I like to believe in retribution.
[22:31] <John_Ivan> in other words, the system is getting what it deserves (grins like a maniac)
[22:31] <John_Ivan> The world can go to hell for all anyone cares.
[22:31] <John_Ivan> Since it's mistakes are it's own.
[22:32] <Ecran10> financing has its purpose, but not to the extent of having science controlled and crippled because some individuals as JP Morgan didn't like Tesla's inventions and busted his tower
[22:32] <sh4rm4^bnc> they crippled almost everybody that made real discoveries
[22:32] <sh4rm4^bnc> like schauberger
[22:32] <Ecran10> very good point
[22:33] <Ecran10> and there is another problem: science does not have to be a dogma
[22:33] <mischi> sh4rm4^bnc: your speed of light question has been answered experimentally since long time. Just look it up. So far only Einstein’ theory is able to explain the findings. If you have a simpler, better idea present it.
[22:33] <sh4rm4^bnc> "theory"
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[22:34] <Ecran10> mischi if every scientist speaked like you, it would be a great scientific world in this regard
[22:34] <Ecran10> in that everybody has a place under the Sun to do science and present discoveries
[22:35] <Ecran10> talking about bugs in the global system
[22:35] <sh4rm4^bnc> Jo-Anna, nothing really, as we didn't talk about pascal. :)
[22:36] <John_Ivan> Jo-Anna, a talk about communism.
[22:37] <mischi> If you have a better, simpler theory, which explains the experimental findings, write a publication, submit it to Phys. Rev. B and the Noble Prize in physics will be yours.
[22:37] <sh4rm4^bnc> hahahaha
[22:37] <mischi> next year.
[22:37] <John_Ivan> mischi, do I also get money?
[22:37] <Ecran10> mischi :)) it is not about the Nobel prize
[22:37] <Ecran10> it is about being free to talk about technology and science
[22:37] <Ecran10> that the mainstream science views as pseudoscience or fringe science
[22:38] <Ecran10> maybe the problem is not even that!
[22:38] <Ecran10> the problem is the aggressiveness of some scientific groups
[22:38] <sh4rm4^bnc> you just gotta look up "laethril" on wikipedia
[22:38] <Ecran10> and the financial power that they have
[22:38] <Ecran10> to dismiss everything that they don't like
[22:38] <John_Ivan> arrrgh mein gott, deze kut kwam opdagen. brb
[22:39] <mischi> as long as it does not meet the evidence requirements, it correctly does so. I have seen enough bullshit pseudoscience, to be very hard on that point.
[22:39] <Ecran10> mischi of course, there are always frauds
[22:39] <sh4rm4^bnc> mischi: your flaw is that you believe there are no political/monetary agendas in science
[22:39] <Ecran10> but there are also individuals that really make discoveries and who have made discoveries
[22:40] <Ecran10> and are either kept hidden, either not recognized in any way
[22:40] <Ecran10> or even worse, the mainstream science says "they are fake"
[22:40] <Ecran10> when that piece of science and technology is not fake and it actually works
[22:41] <sh4rm4^bnc> for example 2 students of mason university that invented a device that extinguishes fire with sound
[22:41] <mischi> i am talking about pure science, which is financed similar to art, as any application is so far off, that industries do not have a real interest in them. Maybe in hundred years.
[22:42] <mischi> you are talking about technology or maybe even technics, but not science.
[22:42] <ShaoB> Pump Up the Bass to Douse a Blaze: Mason Students. Invention Fights Fires - YouTube
[22:42] <sh4rm4^bnc> but the firefighters still can't get their forest fires under control with their water-loaded helicopters
[22:43] <Ecran10> sh4rm4^bnc when those fires in Australia were covering half of the continent
[22:43] <sh4rm4^bnc> i wonder who incited them
[22:43] <Ecran10> have tried to contact the 2 engineers on LinkedIn
[22:43] <mischi> none of us does really know the details of this. Did you get informations from all sides?
[22:43] <Ecran10> and one professor at the Mason University that was on the front page handling
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[22:43] <Ecran10> the rain forest problems in Amazon
[22:43] <Ecran10> but didn't get any answer
[22:44] <mischi> i am talking about my actual experiences.
[22:44] <Ecran10> have sent letters to the Australian Government in that matter, but they said they cannot invest ad-hoc
[22:44] <Ecran10> in such projects and that they require planning ahead
[22:44] <sh4rm4^bnc> inventions are only accepted if they fit into the political agenda
[22:44] <Ecran10> but the fires were at their doors
[22:44] <Ecran10> mischi check out the link above
[22:45] <Ecran10> it is 1 minute long
[22:45] <sh4rm4^bnc> if the agenda is "let people believe there is global warming", then inventions to fight forest fires will be surpressed
[22:45] <Ecran10> sorry, not letters, e-mails
[22:45] <mischi> i had two really succesful publication. One of them was sucessful, because our group presented enough evidence that the widely accepted model was wrong.
[22:46] <sh4rm4^bnc> in the opposite, the fires will be incited just to make people think that global warming theories are true
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[22:46] <Ecran10> there is also the problem that many patent offices didn't want to offer the patent because they said
[22:46] <Ecran10> "the invention doesn't fit in the known physics laws"
[22:46] <Ecran10> though the devices were presented in front of them and working
[22:47] <sh4rm4^bnc> for example in the UK was a flood that was deliberately provoced by the company in charge of the dam
[22:47] <sh4rm4^bnc> a guy sued them, and by cohencidence was killed in a mass shooting
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[22:47] <Ecran10> sh4rm4^bnc good point about the "global warming"
[22:48] <mischi> a rejection of a patent is never as simple as your statement. this is massivly oversimplified.
[22:48] <Ecran10> mischi contratulations for the paper publishing!
[22:48] <mischi> I’ll pass it to my coworkers.
[22:48] <sh4rm4^bnc> it's not just filing a patent, you may get it
[22:49] <sh4rm4^bnc> but it will disappear in a drawer never to be looked at again
[22:49] <sh4rm4^bnc> if it doesn't fit the agenda
[22:49] <sh4rm4^bnc> just like schauberger's inventions
[22:50] <ShaoB> Viktor Schauberger - Comprehend and Copy Nature (Documentary of 2008) - YouTube
[22:51] <Ecran10> an interesting documentary; have viewed about 28 minutes of it
[22:51] <Ecran10> usually when viewing documentaries, can't see them in a single blow
[22:51] <Ecran10> so watch them on "parts": in the morning 15 minutes, tomorrow 20 minutes and so on
[22:51] <sh4rm4^bnc> mischi: the talk of rupert sheldrake i linked talked about how the speed of light gets faked
[22:52] <Ecran10> was wondering what would happen if there were some FreePascal Conventions :))
[22:52] <sh4rm4^bnc> they have different measurements all over the planet, but a central committee is in charge of "fixing" that
[22:52] <Ecran10> it would certainly have at the end of it 2-3 days of tormented discussions on conspiracies
[22:52] <Ecran10> science and technologies and politics :))
[22:53] <mischi> sorry, won’t waste anymore time with such crap. Done so enough in my past.
[22:53] <Ecran10> mischi what crap? the documentary above?
[22:53] <sh4rm4^bnc> rupert sheldrake is a very well-respected physicist
[22:54] <sh4rm4^bnc> but since it doesn't fit into your worldview, you declare it "crap"
[22:54] <mischi> the second law of thermodynamics is one of the best proven concepts. If anything is worth to be considered as truth, this is it.
[22:54] <Jo-Anna> Scientists don’t believe in telepathy either?? I know for a fact that telepathy exists
[22:54] <mischi> no, not because it does not fit. I looked into such stuff often enough, that i am sick of it.
[22:56] <Ecran10> here is another thing
[22:56] <Ecran10> realized it just now reading what you all said
[22:56] <mischi> what field is her respected. I heard enough crap from Nobel prize winners, if they talked about stuff of other fields.
[22:56] <Ecran10> maybe it is better that things are how they are now
[22:56] <mischi> is her → is he, meaning sheldrake.
[22:56] <Ecran10> there have to be some people handling the mainstream science that is well known to work
[22:57] <Ecran10> and there is also the rogue science / technical people that wander around
[22:57] <Ecran10> with conspiracy theories and fringe science
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[22:57] <Ecran10> that the mainstream science dismisses
[22:57] <Ecran10> but each side has its ups and downs
[22:57] <Ecran10> mainstream science is quite rigid
[22:57] <mischi> there is no mainstream science. this is just another such term to make a difference between alternative science and mainstream science.
[22:57] <Ecran10> but it is demonstrated to work for sure in many cases
[22:58] <Ecran10> mischi i.e. if today there is a thing that me and sh4rm4^bnc discover and nobody believes us
[22:58] <mischi> This is not helpful. There is science, which qualifies as such and pseudoscience, which does not.
[22:58] <Ecran10> even with proofs, isn't that alternative science or fringe science or pseudoscience
[22:58] <Ecran10> from the current perspective?
[22:59] <Ecran10> oh ok
[22:59] <Ecran10> probably it is more a matter of marketing wording that is the problem
[23:00] <mischi> marketing plays a role, but in the long run the correct theories survive.
[23:00] <Ecran10> correct
[23:00] <sh4rm4^bnc> why would one want theories to survive
[23:00] <sh4rm4^bnc> we want laws
[23:00] <mischi> Until recently, the key requirement for any theory was, that it needed to present methods, how the theory can be disproven.
[23:01] <mischi> no. not laws. in science, any model you develop is considered a theory.
[23:01] <sh4rm4^bnc> unless it is proven
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[23:02] <mischi> you cannot prove anything correct.
[23:02] <sh4rm4^bnc> if it applies in 100% of cases, it can be proved
[23:02] <Ecran10> the model has to have some applicability
[23:02] <mischi> because you cannot check every posiible case.
[23:02] <sh4rm4^bnc> like if you loosen a hammer in mid-air, it will fall to the ground
[23:03] <mischi> you can only disprove a theory.
[23:03] <sh4rm4^bnc> that's a law of nature
[23:03] <mischi> what do you mean?
[23:03] <sh4rm4^bnc> in the same vein are dr. hamer's discoveries
[23:03] <sh4rm4^bnc> whenever there's a cancer, the person had an emotional shock according to his table
[23:04] <mischi> sorry, but you have no understood the basic thing of philosophy of science.
[23:04] <sh4rm4^bnc> oh?
[23:05] <mischi> Dr. hamer could not check every patient with cancer, in particular the future ones.
[23:05] <sh4rm4^bnc> he checked 40.000 patients
[23:05] <mischi> therefore, you cannot ultimately prove a theory is correct.
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[23:05] <sh4rm4^bnc> and not one that didn't fit into his scheme
[23:05] <mischi> and number 40001 might disapprove his theory, for whatever reason.
[23:06] <Ecran10> statistically it works
[23:06] <Ecran10> from an applicability stand point of view
[23:06] <sh4rm4^bnc> then i wonder why the university of tübingen refused to investigate his claims
[23:06] <Ecran10> the model is good enough to work with it
[23:06] <sh4rm4^bnc> despite their lawful obligation to do so
[23:07] <mischi> Second: He has found a correlation. Again you cannot prove that is is lucky coincidence or not.
[23:07] <sh4rm4^bnc> a university in slovakia did investigate it, and they certified that it held true in all cases they looked at
[23:08] <Ecran10> when Darwin went to the UK Royal Academy of Science and put the platypus on the table in front of them,
[23:08] <Ecran10> they were scandalized and said: "This thing does not exist!"
[23:08] <Ecran10> :))
[23:08] <mischi> wait, wait. some more explanations.
[23:08] <Jo-Anna> Here is how scientists think ... I won’t believe your theory because it’s not “proven”... but I’ve studied it myself..you don’t count you are not a real scientist...ok you do the experiment and you’ll see that it works...we are not wasting time to test things we have decided don’t work..
[23:09] <Ecran10> in my opinion, an ill person wants a solution, not a theory
[23:09] <Ecran10> it is good to have a theory with statistical experimental basis
[23:09] <Ecran10> because we as humans understand that "my man, it might work on you, too"
[23:10] <Ecran10> so depends on how you view science
[23:10] <Ecran10> if you like very exact and precise things, then finding practical solutions that usually work
[23:10] <mischi> first, you have to accept that even in a correlation does not PROVE that there is actually a relation. This applies to all sciences.
[23:10] <Ecran10> might not be considered solutions at all
[23:10] <Ecran10> mischi yes, that is true
[23:10] <sh4rm4^bnc> so you still don't believe that if you drop a stone from a roof, it will fall down ?
[23:10] <mischi> The way out is that a model, a theory of this relation is postulated.
[23:11] <mischi> and here comes a decisive point.
[23:11] <Ecran10> well, it is like in programming: some people are purists, some are not
[23:12] <Ecran10> personally, am more oriented on applicability and engineering part
[23:12] <mischi> if a theory does not present any way how it can be disapproved it is rejected a a bad theory, pseudoscience.
[23:13] <Ecran10> and to me it matters most if it works and wouldn't have anything against presenting when it does not work
[23:13] <Ecran10> it is similar to programming: a program does this, but here it has a bug
[23:13] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, I too am an engineering oriented individual. I am not typically against purists or the like but I dislike anyone that's not pragmantic.
[23:13] <mischi> this was a good and very well working principle for a long time, until String theory came up.
[23:13] <sh4rm4^bnc> how can you disprove that if you drop a stone in mid-air it won't all down
[23:14] <sh4rm4^bnc> *fall
[23:14] <Ecran10> John_Ivan :)) personally, don't have a problem with theoretical people, we all have a role and a purpose
[23:14] <Jo-Anna> Science is just another religion. That was amusing how they needed to fix the problem of speed of light and gravity changing by denying it.
[23:14] <Ecran10> but both sides have their ups and downs
[23:14] <mischi> i am actually an experimentalist and not a theoretical physicist.
[23:14] <Ecran10> great!
[23:15] <Ecran10> we are all a big and happy family :))
[23:15] <John_Ivan> I go with what works and what has been proven. Philosophy is set aside for the "philosophists" :)
[23:15] <John_Ivan> philosophers*
[23:15] <Ecran10> Jo-Anna :> interesting points
[23:15] <mischi> Jo-Anna: Science is not a religion in one major way. It does not accept a dogma, whereas religions are dogmatic. At least the ones, I know.
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[23:16] <Jo-Anna> Isn’t believing that gravity can’t change dogma?
[23:16] <mischi> Philosophy in general yes. But the philosophy of science is the foundation of all science and has actually been developed in parallel to physics.
[23:17] <mischi> Jo-Anna: that is not a given for all times.
[23:17] <John_Ivan> No. I mean as in, I don't care for philosophy at all. As long as it isn't proven, I discard it.
[23:17] <Ecran10> at some point is almost impossible to talk about physics without philosophy
[23:18] <John_Ivan> I only work with what has been proven.
[23:18] <Jo-Anna> Telepathy can travel long distances and telepathy . My mother used to read my mind by the way
[23:18] <John_Ivan> Anything that isn't proven, shall be dismissed. Without being proven :).
[23:18] <Ecran10> Jo-Anna oh, you are starting a big tsunami here :)) just wait for it
[23:19] <mischi> for example: If astonomers find some stars, galaxies, which do not obey the laws of gravity or more precisely the general relativity theory, the challenge is open to find a better even more general theory, which contains the current theory as a special case.
[23:19] <Jo-Anna> I know haha but I’m sorry my personal experiences are better proof than theories of other people
[23:20] <Ecran10> Jo-Anna very good point
[23:20] <Jo-Anna> The funny thing is the Big Bang theory of the universe that’s pretty much the same as saying god created everything
[23:20] <Ecran10> Jo-Anna at least that might be a starting point to try to make a theory or model out of it
[23:20] <Ecran10> Jo-Anna not really
[23:20] <mischi> actually, the term theory can be misleading here, because the meaning of theory in science is slightly different from every days talk.
[23:21] <Ecran10> the Big Bang theory supposes in itself that the Universe created itself by that process
[23:21] <sh4rm4^bnc> let's call it hypothesis then
[23:21] <Ecran10> and that there is no need for a God to have it created
[23:21] <Jo-Anna> God controls the universe
[23:21] <sh4rm4^bnc> what's his name? yahweh ?
[23:21] <mischi> i think model is better. In most cases a mathematical model, which yields quantitative results.
[23:22] <sh4rm4^bnc> or is he a she ?
[23:22] <Jo-Anna> God doesn’t have a gender or name
[23:22] <Ecran10> here is where philosophy meets science
[23:22] <Ecran10> and welcome to the big debate :))
[23:22] <sh4rm4^bnc> according to the pagans there are multiple gods
[23:23] <sh4rm4^bnc> iirc akhenaten was the first to propose a monotheistic view
[23:24] <sh4rm4^bnc> some say that akhenaten and moses are the same person
[23:24] <mischi> back to your gravity case.
[23:24] <Ecran10> and that Akhenaton was actually a star being
[23:24] <Jo-Anna> Nobody really knows what or when the universe was created why can’t people just admit they don’t know and stop coming up with ridiculous theories
[23:25] <sh4rm4^bnc> ah, you finally address my law of nature that "things fall down"
[23:25] <mischi> the model for gravity is about a quantitative description of gravitational forces.
[23:25] <sh4rm4^bnc> that's a theory
[23:25] <sh4rm4^bnc> but that a stone always falls down is a law of nature
[23:25] <Ecran10> Jo-Anna good point
[23:26] <mischi> yes, there is mathematical model or theory describing the force.
[23:26] <sh4rm4^bnc> and it is unproven
[23:26] <mischi> you may now find deviations from the quantitative results by precise measurements of the motion of objects.
[23:27] <sh4rm4^bnc> just like that syphilis comes from sex with a virus-infected person
[23:27] <Jo-Anna> I’m not sure what causes gravity according to the laws of physics everything on earth should be flung into space from centripetal force
[23:27] <sh4rm4^bnc> or that virii that transmit diseases exist at all
[23:27] <mischi> it si up to you to remain serious or making jokes.
[23:27] <sh4rm4^bnc> i'm not making jokes
[23:27] <mischi> ok. then.
[23:27] <sh4rm4^bnc> these are theories, not facts
[23:28] <mischi> the model for gravitational forces is a theory.
[23:28] <Ecran10> Jo-Anna centrifugal force
[23:29] <mischi> your precise measurement of the motion of object might differ from the results of the mathematical model.
[23:29] <sh4rm4^bnc> that would mean the theory is incorrect, right ?
[23:29] <sh4rm4^bnc> uh, the "model"
[23:29] <Jo-Anna> If you have ever used a washing machine or been on a merry go round you will know what I’m saying
[23:30] <mischi> yes. then theoreticians will be busy to develop a new or a more general model, which als descibes the new findings.
[23:30] <sh4rm4^bnc> Jo-Anna, how do you know there is a "space"
[23:30] <sh4rm4^bnc> or that earth is a ball floating therein
[23:30] <sh4rm4^bnc> because of the apollo "moon landings" ? :)
[23:30] <mischi> talking about the model for the earth.
[23:30] <Jo-Anna> Who knows I know there are telescopes to look at things with
[23:31] <sh4rm4^bnc> right. all we know is there is a sky and some lights in there
[23:31] <mischi> if you just move small distances, a flat model is sufficient. Everyone using a city map actually uses a flat earth theory.
[23:31] <Jo-Anna> I know there are planets
[23:31] <sh4rm4^bnc> how so ?
[23:31] <sh4rm4^bnc> did you visit them ?
[23:32] <Jo-Anna> They can be seen with telescopes
[23:32] <mischi> but as soon as the distances get larger you need to take into account the curvature for correct distances and angles.
[23:32] <sh4rm4^bnc> what can be seen? a light ?
[23:32] <sh4rm4^bnc> does it prove it's a ball of matter in space ?
[23:32] <sh4rm4^bnc> and that it rotates around the sun ?
[23:33] <Jo-Anna> mischi: there are also topographic maps
[23:33] <mischi> again, as all other things planets cannot be proven.
[23:34] <sh4rm4^bnc> so according to you, it can't be proven that a rock dropped from a roof won't fall down?
[23:34] <Jo-Anna> There is also the geocentric universe where earth is the point of reference
[23:34] <mischi> However, the model of a planet is the most simplest description of the astronomical observations so far.
[23:34] <sh4rm4^bnc> can it be proven that if you jump from a 100 story building, it will kill you ?
[23:34] <mischi> with all other things, I meant scientific models/theories.
[23:35] <Jo-Anna> Yes
[23:35] <Jo-Anna> But I don’t care to prove it lol
[23:35] <mischi> i cannot be proven to 100% that it is the gravitational force causing the down fall.
[23:36] <sh4rm4^bnc> right, because gravition is a theory
[23:36] <mischi> so far, we have no evidence that this is caused by something else.
[23:36] <sh4rm4^bnc> the fact that things with a weight fall down not
[23:36] <Jo-Anna> sh4rm4^bnc: actually if there is a strong wind the jump might not kill you
[23:36] <sh4rm4^bnc> from 100 stories? the wind will blow you off into the sea?
[23:37] <Jo-Anna> Let’s just say the probability of not dying is very slim
[23:38] <mischi> the only thing, which one can say is, that so far the model of a gravitational force between object with a mass successfully describes the motion of these objects down to highest precision.
[23:38] <sh4rm4^bnc> does the fact that we have seen astronatus jumping around on a gray surface in the TV prove that one can actually travel there?
[23:38] <sh4rm4^bnc> s/there/to the moon
[23:38] <Jo-Anna> If you jumped while wearing a parachute or using a hang glider you might live
[23:39] <mischi> where is the physics in that?
[23:39] <mischi> i mean the moon thing?
[23:39] <sh4rm4^bnc> oh sorry for going offtopic
[23:41] <mischi> i am not really into astronomy and such, but the principle of gravitation has been so successful, that the deviations of the motions of stellar objects have been attributed to the presence of dark matter.
[23:42] <Jo-Anna> With all this smart science why can’t anyone come up with a way to solve corruption and poverty?
[23:43] <mischi> is that physics?
[23:43] <Jo-Anna> The most simple mundane problems can’t be solved yet there is plenty of funding for trips to mars.
[23:43] <mischi> physics deals with very simple relations and already this is too much math for many people.
[23:44] <Jo-Anna> I majored in physics
[23:44] <mischi> relations between persons, relations in societies are much more complex to describe and usually not with any mathematical model.
[23:45] <Jo-Anna> Corruption will perpetuate unless acted upon by a force
[23:45] <sh4rm4^bnc> yet there's an institure that specialized into that
[23:45] <sh4rm4^bnc> *institute
[23:46] <Jo-Anna> Rich people have more momentum than poor people..
[23:46] <sh4rm4^bnc> the tavistock institute
[23:47] <Jo-Anna> Oh yea plenty of funding for mind control projects to cause problems..
[23:48] <Jo-Anna> Such as mass shootings...
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[23:48] <Ecran10> sh4rm4^bnc :)) haha, well put
[23:48] <sh4rm4^bnc> how to engineer a society on a global scale
[23:49] <sh4rm4^bnc> they certainly could afford to give everybody enough food and booze
[23:49] <sh4rm4^bnc> instead they invent movements like feminism and gangsta rap
[23:49] <Ecran10> and booze :))
[23:50] <mischi> even in physics, there are fields, where the equations get so complex, that you cannot solve them analytically and you have to come up with computer intense calculations. Simple example is the wheather forecast. Depending of the location, it might work for 2 weeks at some places, but usually 1 week is what you can expect.
[23:50] <Ecran10> sh4rm4^bnc gangsta crap
[23:50] <Jo-Anna> Things that are controlled by micromanaging far away leaders are a disaster like mao in China for instance was deciding what crops should be grown and ordering a genocide of insect eating birds
[23:50] <fets_> the weather forecasts fails all the time
[23:51] <Ecran10> because they are playing the HAARP
[23:51] <Ecran10> they scramble the weather all the time
[23:51] <sh4rm4^bnc> :)
[23:51] <fets_> uh
[23:51] <fets_> haarp was disassembled I think
[23:51] <mischi> i am old enough to say, they have improved a lot and the rain radar here works quite precisely for the next 2 hours.
[23:51] <fets_> nice
[23:51] <Ecran10> have to go to sleep
[23:51] <fets_> good night
[23:51] <Ecran10> very nice subjects and talk
[23:51] <Ecran10> good night everybody :>
[23:51] <Jo-Anna> I saw a monitoring website that showed the tropical rainforests in Africa and South America on fire
[23:52] Ecran10 has quit IRC (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))
[23:52] <Jo-Anna> Bye Ecran10
[23:52] <fets_> yeah the fires are horrible
[23:52] <fets_> good bye earth
[23:53] <fets_> they are talking about climate change mitigation
[23:53] <fets_> at the same time they are burning down everything for profit
[23:53] <sh4rm4^bnc> heh, just as i predicted an hour ago
[23:53] <sh4rm4^bnc> "zomg the fires - global warming must be real"
[23:54] <fets_> yes of course it is real
[23:54] <fets_> but nothing surprising or new
[23:54] <fets_> climate changes continuosly
[23:54] <sh4rm4^bnc> orly. is it due to the evil CO2 ?
[23:54] <sh4rm4^bnc> right, that is true
[23:55] <fets_> the question is, why are we burning down huuuge areas for money
[23:55] <fets_> it won't make it better
[23:55] <sh4rm4^bnc> to make people think global warming is man made so they can tax your ass off
[23:55] <sh4rm4^bnc> and get rid of your diesel car so you have to buy a new one
[23:55] <fets_> we are not far from taxing the air we breathe
[23:56] <sh4rm4^bnc> they're instrumenting stupid school kids to go onto the streets and protest against diesel cars
[23:56] <fets_> that's probably just distraction
[23:56] <sh4rm4^bnc> the same cars their parents use to bring them to school every day
[23:57] <sh4rm4^bnc> and to earn the food on their plates
[23:58] <sh4rm4^bnc> but sure these 14 year old kiddies that were brainwashed since age 6 surely know their stuff
[23:59] <mischi> i am above 60 and never owned a car, even when raising 3 children.
[23:59] <fets_> what? you need a huge SUV
[23:59] <fets_> or how you call it in english
[23:59] <mischi> exactly.
[00:00] <fets_> I am driving my bicycle, I have no car
[00:00] <fets_> and I am even more relaxed than most car drivers
[00:00] <sh4rm4^bnc> so you certainly don't live in the mountains
[00:00] <mischi> thumps up. it even keeps you healthy.
[00:00] <fets_> yeah right
[00:00] <fets_> that's a good reason
[00:00] <mischi> most SUV drivers live in cities.
[00:00] <fets_> I am not against cars
[00:01] <fets_> I am worried about the wrong ego that makes you buy a huge car to be superiour
[00:01] <mischi> Penis elongations ;-)
[00:01] <sh4rm4^bnc> were does that ego/image fixation come from?
[00:02] <sh4rm4^bnc> isn't that what the TV sells you?
[00:02] <fets_> education?
[00:02] <fets_> conditioning
[00:02] <fets_> propaganda
[00:02] <fets_> marketing
[00:02] <fets_> profit
[00:02] <mischi> other people around you.
[00:03] <sh4rm4^bnc> right. the simple farmer living next to me doesn't care what brand his car is, as long as it's 4x4 so he can drive around his fields to gather his potatoes and bring them to the market.
[00:03] <fets_> right
[00:03] <fets_> he is smart
[00:04] <mischi> no problems with that, but most people are no farmers, do not drive on bad country roads.
[00:04] <sh4rm4^bnc> and pragmatic
[00:04] <mischi> but in general, it is crazy to move 1000 kg in addtion to a single person.
[00:05] <fets_> I agree
[00:05] <sh4rm4^bnc> why? energy is abundant
[00:05] <fets_> if it were 1000kg, it's mostly 1500-2500 now
[00:05] <sh4rm4^bnc> also you rather have a ton of steel around you when you have a car crash
[00:05] <sh4rm4^bnc> instead of 20 kg of plastics
[00:06] <mischi> most of the drives are simply not necessary to be done with a car.
[00:06] <mischi> it is a questions of being used to start the car.
[00:07] <sh4rm4^bnc> well, i'd too prefer a flying vehicle, but somehow the antigrav tech developed in the 50ies disappeared in some drawers
[00:07] <mischi> how crazy: start the car to get to the gym!
[00:07] <fets_> you need rotating mercury
[00:07] <Jo-Anna> fets_: people usually get hostile when I say cars should be gotten rid of because everything has been designed to require a car
[00:08] <fets_> our infrastructure is based on it
[00:08] <fets_> yeah
[00:08] <Jo-Anna> They can’t understand the concept of building things in an accessible way that doesn’t require a car
[00:08] <mischi> cities are somewhat better in that respect.
[00:09] <sh4rm4^bnc> how do they get their food? from people with cars
[00:09] <Jo-Anna> Depends upon city. The high rise and freeway model is pretty bad
[00:09] <mischi> but only one truck needs to drive into the city instead of hundreds driving to the farmer..
[00:09] <fets_> at least they try to make it a bit better for bicycles or scooter etc
[00:10] <mischi> yep.
[00:10] <Jo-Anna> A train can bring food
[00:10] <fets_> but still... too many unnecessary car driving
[00:10] <mischi> the current trend in transporting goods is away from large trucks to fast and small sprinters. Ouch
[00:10] <sh4rm4^bnc> the only thing i really dislike about cars is the noise
[00:11] <sh4rm4^bnc> but it's still better than these new elector cars
[00:11] <sh4rm4^bnc> at least you can hear that it approaches...
[00:11] <Jo-Anna> I have a theory that global warming is a deliberate effort to melt the ice caps so they can get at whatever is under there for profit. They don’t care if they wreck the environment and kill us all
[00:12] <fets_> it's mostly about profit and control
[00:12] <fets_> imho
[00:12] <fets_> they don't really care about resource etc
[00:12] <sh4rm4^bnc> there are other agendas at play there. 1) taxes 2) moving industry away from developed countries
[00:13] <sh4rm4^bnc> germany sells their coal plants for an apple and an egg to china
[00:13] <sh4rm4^bnc> there they continue to produce "evil" CO2
[00:13] <fets_> everything is sold out these days
[00:14] <fets_> make profit, without caring about anything else
[00:14] <mischi> late for me. bed time approaching.
[00:14] <Jo-Anna> fets_: resources are wasted in a ridiculous way generating garbage for one. Garbage shouldn’t even exist for the most part
[00:14] <fets_> good night mischi
[00:14] <mischi> cu
[00:14] <sh4rm4^bnc> night
[00:14] <fets_> I totally agree Jo-Anna
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[00:14] <Jo-Anna> Like plastic waste that’s the worst culprit
[00:16] <Jo-Anna> And people throwing away perfectly good usable things because there is no mechanism to share them with others who need them
[00:16] <sh4rm4^bnc> if you don't want plastic, you gotta get your produce from the farmer
[00:16] <fets_> there is so much stuff that could be fixed, or made better
[00:16] <fets_> better longevity
[00:17] <fets_> but that's less profit then
[00:17] <Jo-Anna> It’s impossible for me to avoid plastic. All food related things are in one use packages that’s how it is
[00:17] <fets_> crazy amounts yeah
[00:17] <sh4rm4^bnc> unless you drive with your car to the farmer and buy your potatoes there
[00:18] <Jo-Anna> fets_: that’s it they want to keep making new stuff to sell
[00:18] <fets_> where are you guys from? I am from germany
[00:18] <Jo-Anna> Driving a car is not the solution to environmental destruction
[00:18] <Jo-Anna> I’m in japan
[00:18] <fets_> really?
[00:19] <Jo-Anna> Yea
[00:19] <fets_> nice
[00:19] <sh4rm4^bnc> i used to live in a small town in portugal where the fisherman came daily with the car and sold his fish
[00:19] <Jo-Anna> And I don’t need a car
[00:19] <sh4rm4^bnc> he might as well have used a donkey
[00:19] <Jo-Anna> Bikes are popular here
[00:20] <fets_> yes
[00:20] <sh4rm4^bnc> but i dont think he would've been able to visit all the small towns :)
[00:20] <fets_> you could really still do a lot with donkeys and horses
[00:21] <Jo-Anna> There are also large tricycle wagons used in Asian countries for that
[00:21] <sh4rm4^bnc> back to the middle ages
[00:21] <fets_> I think the future is public transportation
[00:21] <Jo-Anna> I once saw a load of pineapples in google street view in Bangladesh
[00:21] <fets_> maybe trains or similar stuff
[00:22] <fets_> hmmmm pineapples are yummy
[00:22] <sh4rm4^bnc> too expensive, too inflexible
[00:22] <Jo-Anna> Street cars with a dedicated lane would be nice
[00:23] <Jo-Anna> It depends upon priorities which unfortunately are controlled by car interests
[00:23] <sh4rm4^bnc> going with the bus to the next town costs 3x the gas
[00:23] <sh4rm4^bnc> and how would you bring your fish along?
[00:23] <Jo-Anna> That’s because the roads are subsidized and bus isn’t
[00:23] <fets_> yeah it's not the train how it is now... there must be a different solution/solutions
[00:24] <Jo-Anna> Roads aren’t built for free they use taxes
[00:24] <sh4rm4^bnc> and usually they're built by contractors that are friends with the mayor
[00:25] <sh4rm4^bnc> or paid him off
[00:25] <Jo-Anna> Taxes shouldn’t be spent on roads for the benefit of private car owners
[00:25] <sh4rm4^bnc> what else should they be spent on? maybe covid 19 vaccines?
[00:26] <Jo-Anna> Not that either
[00:26] <sh4rm4^bnc> or unemployment money for the people that lost their business due to covid?
[00:26] <sh4rm4^bnc> or jet fighters from lockheed martin?
[00:26] <Jo-Anna> Taxes are spent badly in most cases
[00:26] <sh4rm4^bnc> or a medical system that gives you free psychotropic drugs bought from pfizer and lilly?
[00:27] <sh4rm4^bnc> well, of course first they will diagnose you with a mental disorder
[00:27] <Jo-Anna> Taxes are stealing from the poor to give to the rich
[00:28] <Jo-Anna> fets_: what’s happening with civil rights in Germany I heard there were protests
[00:28] <fets_> yes
[00:28] <Jo-Anna> Did you get rid of the face diapers and house arrest ?
[00:28] <sh4rm4^bnc> bavarians don't just silently let themselves lock into their houses
[00:29] <sh4rm4^bnc> they wanna go out and drink their beer in a bar
[00:29] <fets_> we have to wear masks in shops etc
[00:29] <Jo-Anna> What about protests against masks ?
[00:30] <fets_> the media tells are they are conspiracy idiots
[00:30] <fets_> and evil
[00:30] <Jo-Anna> The media is controlled by the people who want to kill us..
[00:31] <sh4rm4^bnc> j.e.w.s.
[00:31] <fets_> you are not allowed to ask questions without being made a conspiracy theorist
[00:31] <Jo-Anna> I guess if you disagree with the idea of being killed that makes you evil..
[00:31] <fets_> to them
[00:31] <fets_> yes
[00:32] <fets_> their evil demons don't like resistance
[00:32] <Jo-Anna> But how about most Germans aren’t they getting tired of the nonsense?
[00:32] <fets_> more and more are, smart people anyway
[00:32] <fets_> they know whats the game
[00:32] <fets_> the huge mass is hypnotized
[00:33] <Jo-Anna> I hope they remember that fascism is not a good idea
[00:33] <fets_> yeah, they are using that term to control the people
[00:33] <fets_> if you go protest, you are a right esoteric fascist
[00:33] <fets_> and idiot
[00:34] <fets_> I gave up on that
[00:34] <fets_> I don't want to give all that shit energy
[00:36] <Jo-Anna> I don’t care if the sheeple die I just don’t want them getting me killed with them
[00:36] <fets_> he is the chosen one to bring the chipping
[00:36] <fets_> fucking illuminate he is
[00:38] <fets_> they are all the same imho
[00:39] <sh4rm4^bnc> it's not about musk, it's about what he said and the reactions
[00:39] <fets_> but yeah I see
[00:39] <fets_> right
[00:40] <Jo-Anna> The people who seem to control things that you know the names of are all puppets and proxies they aren’t the real owners of the world
[00:41] <fets_> they are kind of actors
[00:41] <fets_> puppets yeah
[00:43] <sh4rm4^bnc> i don't think the rothschilds are puppets
[00:43] <Jo-Anna> It’s really ingenious when you think of it. Whatever goes wrong gets blamed on the puppets and not the people responsible
[00:44] <sh4rm4^bnc> but the presidents and politicians certainly are
[00:44] <fets_> the rothschilds are not that much in the public
[00:44] <Jo-Anna> If a train crash happens or a chemical plant explodes the flunky working there who died gets the blame
[00:45] <fets_> of course, somebody must be to blame
[00:45] <sh4rm4^bnc> and usually the right answer is "the mossad"
[00:45] <Jo-Anna> That isn’t the person responsible so the problems are never fixed
[00:46] <fets_> if we knew what a secret service is really doing, it wouldn't be secret
[00:46] <Jo-Anna> The vaccine makers are above the law. How did this even happen?
[00:46] <sh4rm4^bnc> that's why they never blame them in the news
[00:46] <fets_> also the reason something has to be hidden, occult, secret, can't be good
[00:47] <Jo-Anna> If the vaccine makers kill a billion people its perfectly legal
[00:47] <fets_> georgia guidestones
[00:47] <sh4rm4^bnc> "500 million people, in harmony with nature"
[00:47] <sh4rm4^bnc> how generous
[00:47] <fets_> 500 million slaves are sufficient
[00:47] <fets_> they calculated
[00:48] <sh4rm4^bnc> david rockefeller said "250 million"
[00:48] <Jo-Anna> fets_: I don’t consider anything to be hidden at all its all in plain sight but sheeple can’t see it
[00:48] <sh4rm4^bnc> these days billie gatestein talks about 1 billion
[00:48] <fets_> you need awareness and consciousness to see things
[00:49] <sh4rm4^bnc> and an open mind
[00:49] <Jo-Anna> fets_: anyone who has ever watched a holocaust documentary should understand what is happening
[00:49] <fets_> oh billie is very generous
[00:49] <sh4rm4^bnc> Jo-Anna, what kind of documentary? the ones produced in hollywood by shekelberg, uh, i meant to say spielberg?
[00:50] <Jo-Anna> You know what the stupid sheeple say when I tell them this is like that they say this isn’t that ..
[00:50] <sh4rm4^bnc> or the real ones like "the majdanek gas chamber hoax" ?
[00:50] <Jo-Anna> I’m not going to get into a ridiculous argument about Jews
[00:50] <fets_> orwell, huxley told us too
[00:50] <fets_> what is happening
[00:51] <Jo-Anna> The holocaust started by declaring people to be a disease
[00:52] <Jo-Anna> The pandemic has declared us all to be carriers of a disease even if you aren’t sick you are still a disease carrier
[00:53] <fets_> that is what the parasites want to believe
[00:53] <fets_> to make us believe
[00:53] <fets_> I mean
[00:55] <Jo-Anna> If you say you aren’t sick they say you are a symptomatic
[00:55] <Jo-Anna> If you say face diapers don’t stop viruses they don’t care
[00:56] <fets_> you are not allowed to have your own opinion
[00:56] <fets_> I mean you are, but then you are a conspiracy esoteric nazi theorist
[00:56] <fets_> or something
[00:57] <Jo-Anna> They are up to the things that they have always been up to they want to kill us and take our stuff and maybe keep a few of us as temporary slaves
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[00:58] <Jo-Anna> All throughout history the goal is the same .. kill people and take their stuff and exploit those that are still alive
[00:59] <fets_> kali yuga
[00:59] <Jo-Anna> But what do you do if you have conquered all the world? Then you cull the people you control and take their stuff
[00:59] <fets_> peoples minds are a mess
[01:00] <Jo-Anna> There is also a theory that they do this for entertainment like the romans did
[01:00] <fets_> that causes most of the problems
[01:00] <fets_> sometimes when I see music videos or news or talk shows, I think they try how far they can go
[01:01] <fets_> and it gets worse and worse
[01:01] <Jo-Anna> That’s right this is why this plan will not be stopped by anything short of an asteroid hitting the earth or an emp pulse that wipes out all communication
[01:01] <fets_> brb
[01:02] <Jo-Anna> That’s right the more they get away with the more they escalate
[01:02] <Jo-Anna> I need to go eat something
[01:10] <fets_> back
[01:10] <fets_> kk
[01:10] <fets_> enjoy :)
[01:21] <sh4rm4^bnc> you can do amazing things to people if you control their media
[01:21] <sh4rm4^bnc> and one of the main goals of the covid agenda was to fight "fake news"
[01:25] <Jo-Anna> I bet they are also controlling the opposition to the plandemic to make sure it goes the way they want it.
[01:26] <sh4rm4^bnc> some certainly
[01:26] <sh4rm4^bnc> like david icke, alex jones and friends
[01:27] <Jo-Anna> Kind of like what they did with the abortion issue offer two incorrect ideas and steer people away from real solutions. The supply of fetuses for their vaccines and who knows what else
[01:27] <Jo-Anna> Stem cell research was it ?
[01:28] <sh4rm4^bnc> that's how disinformation works
[01:28] <sh4rm4^bnc> the whole 9/11 coverup was done that way too
[01:28] <Jo-Anna> I’ve kind of wondered how Alex Jones and David icke never get busted no matter how defiant they are.
[01:29] <sh4rm4^bnc> even hardcore 9/11 "conspiracy theorists" never heard of dr july woods
[01:29] <sh4rm4^bnc> *dr judy wood
[01:29] <fets_> they want chaos
[01:29] <fets_> that is how they rule
[01:30] <sh4rm4^bnc> or that there was a hurricane that very same day at the coast of NY
[01:30] <Jo-Anna> I once asked someone following the 911 truth.. ok now that you have realized that the government did it now what ??
[01:30] <sh4rm4^bnc> "ordo ab chaos"
[01:30] <sh4rm4^bnc> the freemason slogan
[01:30] <fets_> ita est
[01:30] <sh4rm4^bnc> alea iacta est
[01:32] <fets_> novus ordo seculorum
[01:32] <fets_> or something
[01:32] <fets_> I forgot most of latin
[01:32] <sh4rm4^bnc> novo ordo saeclorum
[01:32] <fets_> novo
[01:32] <fets_> yeah
[01:32] <sh4rm4^bnc> pecunia non olet
[01:33] <fets_> dominus vocat, servus advolat et intrat.
[01:33] <sh4rm4^bnc> :>
[01:33] <fets_> dominus servum hortum demonstrat.
[01:33] <sh4rm4^bnc> sicilia insula est
[01:33] <fets_> yeah it is
[01:33] <sh4rm4^bnc> that was the first latin lesson
[01:33] <fets_> I remember it was
[01:34] <fets_> now they have other books
[01:34] <sh4rm4^bnc> asterix & obelix
[01:34] <fets_> hahaha
[01:35] <sh4rm4^bnc> ave caesar, morituri te salutant
[01:35] <fets_> the whore of babylon
[01:35] <fets_> still there
[01:35] <fets_> more than ever
[01:36] <sh4rm4^bnc> yes.. the pharisees are in charge
[01:38] <ShaoB> Dr. Judy Wood at New Horizons - Where Did The Towers Go - YouTube
[01:40] <fets_> and building 7 too
[01:42] <sh4rm4^bnc> building 1-7
[01:47] <Antitrack> 2 planes but 3 towers, straight vertically down in free fall speed
[01:47] <sh4rm4^bnc> pulverized
[01:47] <sh4rm4^bnc> and actually 7 buildings, not just 3
[01:49] <fets_> there was a theory of mininukes also
[01:49] <fets_> by a russian
[01:49] <fets_> that would explain the pulverization
[01:49] <fets_> I need to watch
[01:56] <sh4rm4^bnc> well, there are no theories in dr judy wood's presentation
[01:56] <sh4rm4^bnc> she only shows evidence
[01:59] <Jo-Anna> Antitrack: controlled demolitions most likely performed by controlled demolition inc.
[02:03] <sh4rm4^bnc> you got the evidence right in front of your eyes but still insist on ridiculous theories ?
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[02:14] <Jo-Anna> That’s interesting I wonder how they turned it to dust
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[04:40] <Jo-Anna> sh4rm4^bnc: that video still points towards people demolishing the buildings
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[08:59] <zaherdirkey> morning
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[12:14] <mischi> hi. i need some help with the following.
[12:15] <mischi> i created a group of GUI elements with form.create and the programm can create additional groups of exactly the same GUI elements.
[12:15] <mischi> currently this is an array of a record, which has all the GUI elements.
[12:17] <mischi> my problem is that there is a Button and i need to refer to the index of the array in its OnClick method.
[12:18] <mischi> is the replacing the array of GUI elements by a collection the solution?
[12:19] <mischi> Would I have to convert the record of the GUI elements to the TCollectionItem?
[12:31] <arahael> mischi: I suspect the issue you have is more to do with you currently having an array of value objects, but the collection of TCollectionItem would be reference objects.
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[12:50] <mischi> arahael: hm. Does not really tell me much. Can you explore?
[12:51] <arahael> mischi: Normally a value object is passed as a copy, so if you have an array of records, and you're passing one of those into the OnClick method, you'll be providing the OnClick method with a copy of that item.
[12:51] <arahael> mischi: But if you have a "collection", which has to have "TCollectionItem", then TCollectionItem is normally going to be some sort of class, so the collection will have instances of that class.
[12:51] <arahael> mischi: And you pass instances as a reference - so you'll pass the address of that object rather than a copy of the object.
[12:53] <mischi> ok. i think i got it. It probably does not make a difference as far as i see at the moment, it does not need to be a copy, the reference is sufficient.
[12:54] <arahael> mischi: Consider that on modern systems, passing a copy is usually cheaper than you expect, so this is more of "what do you need to do?" rather than a performance question.
[12:54] <mischi> i think that there is no performance issue.
[12:55] <arahael> Right. The other concern with arrays is that the items may be moved in memory if the size of the array changes.
[12:55] <mischi> at the moment, i think that heavy numerical calculations are the bottle neck.
[12:55] <arahael> Which means that even if you were to explicitly provide the address of an item (as you would in C), that might not be reliable.
[12:56] <mischi> afk. lunch time. thanks.
[12:57] <mischi> be back later.
[12:57] <arahael> No worries, I'm off to bed in a moment.
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[13:53] <mischi> back.
[13:54] <mischi> any more comments?
[13:55] <arahael> Sorry, I've gone to bed. :( Just finishing up.
[13:58] <mischi> i wasn’t actually expecting more replies from you, but maybe others have some additional hints.
[13:58] <mischi> Thanks again and have nice dreams.
[14:04] <mischi> any one a nice example for TCollection and TCollectionItem?
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[14:12] <mischi> maybe a Tlist is better? or sufficient?
[14:20] <sh4rm4^bnc> mischi, iirc gui items have a "tag" field where you could assign the array index too
[14:20] <sh4rm4^bnc> so you could just use sender.tag
[14:20] <sh4rm4^bnc> or you iterate over your array and compare the tobject pointer with the one you've saved
[14:22] <mischi> tag field sounds interesting.
[14:23] <mischi> then i could simply use my simple types, i.e. arrays and records.
[14:24] <sh4rm4^bnc> right. you'd just put the current array index into tag after creating the object and putting it into your list
[14:25] <sh4rm4^bnc> even if tag didn't exist, you could just subclass the gui item and add it
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[16:52] <Ecran10> hello everybody
[16:52] <Ecran10> how are you?
[16:52] <Ecran10> .weather
[16:52] <ShaoB> Ecran10 Dorohoi, Botosani, Romania, Sunny, 24C as 25C, wind 19.0 km/h N, pressure 1016 hPa, humidity 36%, uv 6
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[23:52] <sh4rm4^bnc> what format was the file in? .dxf ?
[23:53] <GPF_PRO> Auto in greek means Self, Stand alone etc
[23:53] <sh4rm4^bnc> .iges?
[23:53] <Ecran10> no no, it was a simple text file
[23:53] <Ecran10> he had a list of coordinates there
[23:53] <Kraig> Maybe there is a #grep channel in irc ?
[23:53] <sh4rm4^bnc> instructions for a 3d mill ?
[23:53] <GPF_PRO> dxf is a text file
[23:54] <Ecran10> hello Professor
[23:54] <GPF_PRO> hi
[23:54] <Ecran10> haven't worked with specific formats
[23:54] <sh4rm4^bnc> those look like: SELECT TOOL 5 ; MOVE 1,2,3 ; LOWER HEAD 2
[23:54] <sh4rm4^bnc> and then the mill does just that
[23:54] <Kraig> That cad stuff reminds me of architectural software I tried out once and it was so complicated that I couldn’t understand then the trial period expired ..
[23:54] <Ecran10> the issue was that he wanted an automated way to filter those coordinates, eliminate duplicates and some other things
[23:55] <GPF_PRO> you maybe thinking gerber ?
[23:55] <Ecran10> and did the program for him
[23:55] <GPF_PRO> there are a few formats out there.
[23:55] <GPF_PRO> Or G-Code
[23:57] <Kraig> Ecran10: how big was the program?
[23:57] <Ecran10> in terms of source code lines?
[23:57] <Kraig> Yes
[23:57] <Ecran10> was just looking at it
[23:58] <Ecran10> about 500 lines
[23:58] <Kraig> Is there a way to find out how many total lines in a Lazarus project?
[11:49] <ShaoB> GTA San Andreas Opening Intro - YouTube
[11:50] <John_Ivan> The landmark for the GTA series
[11:50] <John_Ivan> seeing it now in 2020 compared to when I saw it in 2012..... man.
[11:51] <Ecran10> yes, yes
[11:51] <Ecran10> but it is a good exercise to view these videos
[11:51] <Ecran10> tried many times to get back to the view back then
[11:51] <Ecran10> it was better in many ways
[11:51] <Ecran10> sometimes it works
[11:51] <Ecran10> :>
[11:51] <Ecran10> but have to exercise more
[11:52] <John_Ivan> I'm not trying to go back. I am just wondering what I saw back then but I suppose that realization when "it's the only thing you've got" is a bit hard to push past boundaries
[11:53] <John_Ivan> I can point out at so many things nowadays that are tremendously better than GTA_SA
[11:53] <Ecran10> that is the thing: if you can still view GTA San Andreas now as you did back then
[11:53] <Ecran10> imagine how you can view the new games :>
[11:53] <Ecran10> if that is a permanent state of mind
[11:54] <John_Ivan> I cannot view it as I did back then.
[11:54] <John_Ivan> I see it as inferior. lol
[11:54] <John_Ivan> But then again. It's a game made in 2004...
[11:54] <John_Ivan> That's 16 years ago.
[11:55] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, truth is, for 2004, it had impressive aspects.
[11:55] <John_Ivan> And it is clear they put in a lot of work into it.
[11:55] <Ecran10> one problem with advancing technology is that being so quick in its progress
[11:55] <Ecran10> people become bored very quickly
[11:55] <Ecran10> and the depth of appreciation is diminished
[11:56] <Ecran10> so the past has its great lessons to keep aside from the "fast obsolete" movement
[11:56] <Ecran10> that is happening
[11:56] <Ecran10> and that also drives happiness away
[11:56] <John_Ivan> I agree. Though when you're someone like me who only discards the past and leaves the present/future, it's hard to.
[11:56] <John_Ivan> I'm a "the end justifies the means" kind of person.
[11:57] <John_Ivan> The end result is what ultimately matters overall, in my belief.
[11:57] <John_Ivan> Because (especially from a business point of view)
[11:57] <John_Ivan> customers care about what they get. the end result.
[11:57] <Jo-Anna> Hi ecran
[11:57] <Ecran10> hello Jo-Anna
[11:58] <Ecran10> customers in themselves have a shallow side
[11:58] <Ecran10> and you can't trust them when it comes to depth
[11:58] <Jo-Anna> You have a very enthusiastic monologue happening there.
[11:58] <Ecran10> regardless of what they say :))
[11:58] <Ecran10> Jo-Anna not a monologue
[11:58] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, correct. But let's put it this way.
[11:58] <Jo-Anna> Oh ?
[11:59] <John_Ivan> Your job and your goal is to deliver quality and make the customer happy.
[11:59] <Ecran10> like to discuss only by presenting ideas
[11:59] <John_Ivan> That is your one and only perspective.
[11:59] <John_Ivan> If you fail to do that, you failed at solving the problem.
[11:59] <Ecran10> apparently yes
[12:00] <Ecran10> but in the personal sense, every step on the road mattered more than the whims of the client
[12:00] <Jo-Anna> Ted kuzinski tried to warn us about tech but nobody listened
[12:00] <Ecran10> John_Ivan don't want to be that individual to contradict, it is just a different perspective
[12:00] <John_Ivan> The company I worked in drilled this in my head and it's kind of hard to get out. In a way they're not wrong. Because no matter what domain you go in, be it the army, getting in a course, attempting to work on a project, the overall goal is to have it succeed. The end goal is all that matters.
[12:01] <Ecran10> my perspective has many disadvantages when it comes to winning
[12:01] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, I'm open to any sort of perspective. I don't mind.
[12:01] <John_Ivan> When you push out code or software, it's the end result that users care about.
[12:01] <John_Ivan> The same goes in OpenSource
[12:02] <John_Ivan> incomplete/bad projects get ignored/defamed.
[12:02] <Ecran10> Jo-Anna 2 sec to look for Ted Kuzinski
[12:02] <Ecran10> John_Ivan yes, yes, very correct
[12:02] <Ecran10> but that is what the client lives
[12:02] <Ecran10> in my personal life have the priviledge to be the computer programmer
[12:03] <Ecran10> and live my own life which is the way of development
[12:03] <Jo-Anna> Unabomber manifesto
[12:03] <Ecran10> the road that every computer programmer has to pass each time he/she writes source code
[12:03] <Ecran10> the client cannot understand that
[12:03] <Ecran10> and that is his problem
[12:03] <Ecran10> but to keep the heart going, the programmer has to stick to his own inner peace
[12:04] <Ecran10> regardless of the beliefs of the client
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[12:04] <Ecran10> that is a part of what keeps passion for computer programming alive
[12:04] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, and what if the client **did** understand that? The matter of fact remains that he won't change his budget. Or desire. Or expect any less as a result of "sympathy."
[12:05] <John_Ivan> That's the sad truth.
[12:05] <Ecran10> don't want his sympathy
[12:05] <Ecran10> that is the thing
[12:05] <Ecran10> and software development is not like classical engineering
[12:05] <Ecran10> thing that managers still don't understand
[12:05] <Ecran10> most software projects are late :))
[12:05] <Ecran10> they don't get it that software is like water
[12:06] <Ecran10> you can't have it in a fixed form
[12:06] <Ecran10> it is a like a flow that can't be really controlled
[12:06] <Ecran10> as managers dream in a utopian fashion
[12:06] <Ecran10> and history proves it
[12:06] <John_Ivan> Perhaps.
[12:06] <Ecran10> and they still press the same button
[12:07] <Ecran10> in my opinion, it is the problem of managers to be stressed out
[12:07] <Ecran10> because of timing
[12:07] <Ecran10> not the programmer
[12:07] <Ecran10> because it is a reality
[12:07] <Ecran10> out of practical terms, it is really unpredictable in many cases
[12:08] <Ecran10> to say when some piece of software will be finished
[12:08] <John_Ivan> I say the reason it's unpredictable is due to changes in technology for the worse.
[12:08] <Ecran10> the single thing that actually does the work is working on that thing
[12:08] <Ecran10> and when it is done is done
[12:08] <Ecran10> John_Ivan yes, yes, that is one of the many reasons
[12:08] <Ecran10> the issue of the managers is the lack of *trust*
[12:08] <Ecran10> they don't actually trust computer programmers
[12:09] <Ecran10> because they know, the managers, they don't actually have any control
[12:09] <Ecran10> over software, it is the computer programmers who has the buttons
[12:09] <Ecran10> then they think that a programmers wants to sleep on the job
[12:09] <Ecran10> and don't do his work
[12:09] <John_Ivan> Sure.
[12:09] <Ecran10> and thus the nasty psychological techniques that managers use
[12:10] <Ecran10> the constant fear that their budget is drained for nothing
[12:10] <Ecran10> and because of the fear of managers, things get worse
[12:10] <Ecran10> and they actually have a lot of money in the company budget
[12:10] <Ecran10> but greed always makes them think: "maybe we can cut a bit more" :))
[12:10] <Ecran10> doesn't work like that and it is proved
[12:10] <Ecran10> in my opinion, they should be more sincere
[12:11] <Ecran10> and say they will pay less and don't fuss about time
[12:11] <John_Ivan> Agreed. The problem however isn't really there. The root cause that is.
[12:11] <Ecran10> and things will go better
[12:11] <John_Ivan> I see that merely as a festering wound as a result of a more complicated illness.
[12:12] <John_Ivan> The real problem lies in those that create the tools.
[12:12] <John_Ivan> e.g The Community & <Insert_Conglomerate_Company_Here>
[12:12] <Ecran10> very interesting
[12:12] <Ecran10> and a very good point
[12:13] <John_Ivan> You have far too many tools and far too many coming out every month.
[12:13] <John_Ivan> Humans are not robots. These tools come out in unstable form. Some still updating (nodejs)
[12:13] <John_Ivan> When I was introduced in my last company, they told me to shift a project from an old language to nodejs
[12:13] <John_Ivan> I still remember the page when I opened up the nodejs manual
[12:14] <John_Ivan> it was in version 0.8xx
[12:14] <John_Ivan> So how do you not expect to have issues, late software, unpredictable time schedules
[12:14] <John_Ivan> when the tools themselves
[12:14] <John_Ivan> aren't predictable and stable?
[12:14] <John_Ivan> Not to mention
[12:14] <John_Ivan> the person using the tools isn't familiar with the new tech.
[12:14] <John_Ivan> That is the root cause imo.
[12:14] <Ecran10> very good points
[12:14] <John_Ivan> And this is all caused
[12:14] <John_Ivan> by > e.g The Community & <Insert_Conglomerate_Company_Here>
[12:14] <Ecran10> precisely!
[12:15] <Ecran10> that is why software development is actually, in practice, an unprecise job
[12:15] <Ecran10> because of what you said
[12:16] <Ecran10> so in order to program all sorts of crazy things that managers effectively dream completely
[12:16] <Ecran10> disconnected from reality and without grounding
[12:16] <Ecran10> have to have a lot of tolerance to errors
[12:16] <Ecran10> in my opinion, software development is one of the most erroneous prone and full of errors
[12:16] <Ecran10> side of engineering
[12:17] <Ecran10> if it were for mechanical engineering or constructions to have so many erorrs
[12:17] <Ecran10> as there are in software :)) we would be living in tents :))
[12:17] <Ecran10> and driving waggons
[12:17] <Ecran10> the erroneous part of software is inherent to it
[12:17] <Ecran10> that is its nature
[12:18] <John_Ivan> and the reason for that is because in other engineering fields, it's not so easy to make changes as it is to edit a text file and hit the compile button. which means the wrong people get the power they don't deserve.
[12:18] <Ecran10> and the grade of erroneousness enlarges exponentially when you put the current managers in charge
[12:18] John_Ivan looks at OpenSource's millions of forks
[12:18] <John_Ivan> I think we need to put more constraint on who has power.
[12:19] <Ecran10> there was a manager at Embarcadero that was a great man, he really how to keep meetings short, 10-15 minutes and everybody knew what he had to do, he was from US
[12:19] <Ecran10> John_Ivan good point about the text
[12:19] <Ecran10> file
[12:19] <Ecran10> you have to let creativity flourish on one side,
[12:20] <Ecran10> but also, when building up software, there has to be a person, a technical person
[12:20] <Ecran10> that really knows how to choose the tools
[12:20] <Ecran10> not a crazy and ungrounded, greedy and lustful manager
[12:20] <Ecran10> who only dreams of more money to buy a larger house
[12:20] <Ecran10> and probably to have more sex with 10 more luxury ladies
[12:21] <Ecran10> can't do software development based on such intents
[12:21] <Ecran10> have to go
[12:21] <Ecran10> will be back later
[12:22] <Ecran10> see you around :>
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[23:29] <ShaoB> Bakuretsu Bakuretsu Bakuretsu - La La La - YouTube
[23:30] <Ecran10> 2 sec, will be back in a while
[23:35] <GPF_PRO> I keep getting spammed on my news check that C++ is becoming the language of choice
[23:35] <GPF_PRO> C+=20
[23:35] <GPF_PRO> C++20
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[23:38] <GPF_PRO> I find that video exhilarating
[23:38] <GPF_PRO> not!
[23:38] <GPF_PRO> ;)
[23:39] <John_Ivan> GPF_PRO, a bunch of graybeards skipping about thinking they can invent the language of the century with their innovative ideas and that's how you get languages that "explode" like Crystal, Rust, Nodejs and whatnot.
[23:40] <John_Ivan> meanwhile nobody is serious about anything and everything gets treated with the utmost lunacy.
[23:40] <John_Ivan> if there's a problem, they pull back the build, fix, ship it out again until the next problem issue shows up.
[23:40] <John_Ivan> with the userbase as the testers.
[23:41] <John_Ivan> 21st century SDLC
[23:41] <John_Ivan> everything so agile, it breaks.
[23:41] <Solak> <duck>what about ecmascript?</duck>
[23:41] <John_Ivan> I'd say it's more like "fragile"
[23:41] <GPF_PRO> Well I have been contemplating about writing a Laz IDE for the gcc++ compiler
[23:42] <John_Ivan> GPF_PRO, everyone is a comedian nowadays
[23:42] <John_Ivan> literarily. you don't have an engineer anymore. you have a cowboy coder
[23:42] <sh4rm4^bnc> the language of the future needs to compile quickly
[23:42] <GPF_PRO> write a transcript code generator to convert object Pascal over to C++ so that the LCL libs don't have to be recreated over night
[23:43] <sh4rm4^bnc> and C++ is super slow
[23:43] <GPF_PRO> But I have a totally different approuch to the idea,..
[23:43] <GPF_PRO> only slow on the compile end but it generates fast and small EXEs
[23:43] <GPF_PRO> which is the reason for it being slow, it dings in.
[23:43] <sh4rm4^bnc> small? not if you statically link the stdlib
[23:44] Solak must admit that objpas and c are still his favorite languages.
[23:44] <GPF_PRO> but cached objs help that greatly
[23:44] <GPF_PRO> you can have a LIB and extra only what you need out of it.
[23:44] <GPF_PRO> you don't need to link the whole lib
[23:45] <GPF_PRO> you see that is where the difference is between the two, C had libs that are a collection of smaller code blocks if you decide to configure that way
[23:46] <GPF_PRO> and at the end of the day, you link in only that part that is needed.
[23:46] <GPF_PRO> fpc tries to do the same.
[23:46] <GPF_PRO> with smart linking units etc
[23:46] <sh4rm4^bnc> $ cat test.cc
[23:46] <sh4rm4^bnc> #include <iostream>
[23:46] <sh4rm4^bnc> int main() {std::cout << "hello" << std::endl;}
[23:46] <sh4rm4^bnc> $ g++ test.cc -static -Os
[23:46] <sh4rm4^bnc> $ wc -c a.out
[23:46] <sh4rm4^bnc> 1511600 a.out
[23:47] <sh4rm4^bnc> 1.5 fucking MB
[23:47] <GPF_PRO> That is the stream lib..
[23:47] <GPF_PRO> you link that in and its your fault.
[23:47] <sh4rm4^bnc> it's like 0.05% of the stdlib
[23:47] <GPF_PRO> Yes but the stream libs are setup to need each other.
[23:48] <GPF_PRO> so it actually links in a good large chunk
[23:48] <sh4rm4^bnc> it's doesn't matter, whenever you link *anything* of the stdlib statically, you get this or more
[23:48] <GPF_PRO> I've done this testing many times using Builder C++ and always got good results..
[23:48] <sh4rm4^bnc> you didn't used -static
[23:48] <GPF_PRO> becides, streams is an over kill stupid example
[23:49] <GPF_PRO> I avoid that like the pandemic.
[23:49] <GPF_PRO> C++ code does not mean you have to use the streams
[23:49] <GPF_PRO> that is like a complete layer.
[23:50] <sh4rm4^bnc> if u dont wanna use the C++ stdlib, you can just as well use C
[23:50] <GPF_PRO> When I referred to duplicating the LCL, I wasn't referring to using the C++ stream libs..
[23:52] <sh4rm4^bnc> $ cat test.c
[23:52] <sh4rm4^bnc> #include <stdio.h>
[23:52] <sh4rm4^bnc> int main() { puts("hello"); }
[23:52] <GPF_PRO> I've only used those in console apps and find them useless.
[23:52] <sh4rm4^bnc> $ gcc -Os -static test.c
[23:52] <sh4rm4^bnc> $ wc -c a.out
[23:52] <sh4rm4^bnc> 5376 a.out
[23:53] <GPF_PRO> with linux its possible each app is duge because it needs to link in the interface to use if you don't use the native interface directly
[23:53] <sh4rm4^bnc> actually i forgot to add -s to the g++ command line
[23:53] <sh4rm4^bnc> it's "only" 577 KB stripped
[23:53] <sh4rm4^bnc> 100x bigger than the C program
[23:54] <GPF_PRO> oh well
[23:54] <Ecran10> BACK!
[23:55] <sh4rm4^bnc> GPF_PRO, the difference to win32 is that there is no real "static linking"
[23:55] <sh4rm4^bnc> because you always have to interface to win32.dll and friends
[23:55] <sh4rm4^bnc> whereas on linux you can issue syscalls
[23:56] <GPF_PRO> YOu can static link objects from libs with windows using a C/C++ compiler.
[23:56] <John_Ivan> wb
[23:56] <GPF_PRO> that is the *.LIB and othes like it.
[23:56] <sh4rm4^bnc> yes, you can static link *your* libs on windows
[23:56] <sh4rm4^bnc> but not kernel32.dll etc
[23:56] <GPF_PRO> it just picks out what you want to link in your code.
[23:57] <GPF_PRO> But I don't have to link the whole lib, Just parts of it.
[23:57] <GPF_PRO> the LIB format in tool chain for MS allows you to do this.
[23:57] <sh4rm4^bnc> if you disassemble any win32 binary, you won't find a int 0x80 in it
[23:57] <GPF_PRO> Note sure what the gcc line does.
[23:57] <sh4rm4^bnc> or on x64 a syscall insn
[23:57] <GPF_PRO> but you can build a LIB with extractable objs
[23:58] <sh4rm4^bnc> that sounds like an .a archive
[23:58] <sh4rm4^bnc> it's basically like a zip file with some .o files in it
[23:59] <GPF_PRO> Well I don't thihk they are zipped but yes, that is basically it
[23:59] <sh4rm4^bnc> they're not zipped, no
[23:59] <sh4rm4^bnc> but it's like a container
[23:59] <GPF_PRO> you can pick what you need and it will also include other objs that are needed to support .
[00:00] <GPF_PRO> so if i pick an object and that code requires some other objects in the same lib for example, they will also get included.
[00:00] <GPF_PRO> automatically
[00:00] <sh4rm4^bnc> anyway i'd like to see your truly static linked win32 binary
[00:00] <sh4rm4^bnc> that doesn't use kernel32.dll at all
[00:00] <sh4rm4^bnc> and issues int 0x80 syscall instructions
[00:01] <GPF_PRO> also, I believe there is an option to custom compile the RTL for each project to only include the code you need, That takes a while to compile
[00:02] <GPF_PRO> System function calls all live mostly DLL's and they get loaded only once in memory between many apps.
[00:02] <GPF_PRO> only the heap gets duplicated
[00:02] <GPF_PRO> per process
[00:03] <sh4rm4^bnc> wherever they may live, my point is that win32 always requires you to link against those dlls
[00:03] <GPF_PRO> that has been that way since Windows 2000..
[00:03] <GPF_PRO> and maybe towards the end of 98
[00:03] <GPF_PRO> Hmm, not really
[00:03] <sh4rm4^bnc> i suspect it's been like that since at least win 3.11 with 32bit subsys
[00:04] <GPF_PRO> there is no linking. its a startup procedure that gathers the entry points of the DLLS
[00:04] <sh4rm4^bnc> that is called dynamic linking
[00:04] <GPF_PRO> there is no static linking with win32 dlls.
[00:04] <sh4rm4^bnc> DLL = dynamic link library
[00:04] <GPF_PRO> yes and when you script it its done at that beginning ..
[00:05] <GPF_PRO> so that when changes are made to any system files your programs do not need to be recompiled..
[00:05] <sh4rm4^bnc> i.e. "dynamic linking"
[00:05] <GPF_PRO> yes..
[00:05] <GPF_PRO> that is how its done in windows..
[00:06] <GPF_PRO> all the address are gathered at startup
[00:06] <sh4rm4^bnc> thus linux has a stable syscall API so you can static link and your binaries will work forever on that arch
[00:06] <GPF_PRO> for the OS interface
[00:06] <GPF_PRO> Well that is how the Commadore 64 worked
[00:06] <sh4rm4^bnc> yes, it's for the transition from userspace to kernel space
[00:07] <GPF_PRO> you static linked into the roms
[00:07] <GPF_PRO> You dont do that in window supplied functions
[00:08] <sh4rm4^bnc> exactly what i'm talking about since 13 minutes
[00:08] <GPF_PRO> also I believe you can do dynamic linking in Linux code too, just slower on the startup and a little slower overall
[00:08] <sh4rm4^bnc> of course
[00:08] <sh4rm4^bnc> in fact, GLIBC (gnu C library) actively discourages from static linking
[00:09] <GPF_PRO> Well I don't know what you are talking about, you seem to keep going around the grounds over and over. I see a trench in the grounds already..
[00:09] <GPF_PRO> with that, I need to get something to eat/
[00:09] <sh4rm4^bnc> and when you use certain functions, like DNS resolvers, you can't static link at all
[00:09] <sh4rm4^bnc> because they dlopen() alternative resolver backends
[00:10] <sh4rm4^bnc> anyway the static linked C hello world with 5 KB doesn't interface with any dynamic libs
[00:10] <sh4rm4^bnc> it talks directly to the kernel
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[00:17] <Ecran10> use FPC, easier to work with
[00:17] <Ecran10> same results
[00:17] <sh4rm4^bnc> easier than what ?
[00:17] <Ecran10> than all the story above
[00:17] <sh4rm4^bnc> and what result? a 5 KB binary? never
[00:17] <Ecran10> depends on the size of the RTL
[00:18] <sh4rm4^bnc> iirc the minimum FPC binary size i achieved was about 300KB
[00:18] <sh4rm4^bnc> same ballpark as delphi
[00:18] <sh4rm4^bnc> at least with delphi you can use KOL to get tiny binaries
[00:19] <Ecran10> mine got to 100 KB
[00:19] <Ecran10> for FPC
[00:19] <sh4rm4^bnc> are they dynamic linked?
[00:19] <Ecran10> but it didn't do anything, it was a simple console application
[00:19] <sh4rm4^bnc> for the record, you can copy a static linked binary to another computer that doesn't have FPC installed, and it will work
[00:20] <sh4rm4^bnc> not so with a dynamic linked one
[00:20] <Ecran10> there are advantages and disadvantages to each of them
[00:20] <Ecran10> reason for which they both exist
[00:21] <sh4rm4^bnc> certainly
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[00:23] <sh4rm4^bnc> a skilled user knows the advantages and disadvantages and uses the one that fits his usecase
[00:24] <sh4rm4^bnc> for example if he codes an app he needs to use on someone else's computer, he most likely wants it statically linked
[00:24] <Ecran10> would be nice to have the "delayed" keyword in FreePascal as it is in Delphi
[00:24] <sh4rm4^bnc> so he doesn't have to bring along 30 MB of shared libraries together with his program
[00:24] <Ecran10> it would make late binding of imported functions easier to write
[00:25] <Ecran10> good point
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[04:28] <ShaoB> Earthquake NEAR EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN on 2020-09-12 02:44, UTC, magnitude 6.1 m, depth 46 km, lat 38.78, lon 142.19
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[07:47] <DiogenesW> servus
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[10:23] <ShaoB> Earthquake VANUATU on 2020-09-12 08:34, UTC, magnitude 5.7 mb, depth 10 km, lat -17.16, lon 167.76
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[11:36] <mischi> yep. It is nice to have some mor summer days before autumn will set in.
[11:36] <Ecran10> yes, yes
[11:36] <Ecran10> the last summer sun gazes
[11:58] <Ecran10> have a question:
[11:58] <Ecran10> have made JCL compilable with FPC 3.0.4 both 32-bit and 64-bit on Windows
[11:58] <Ecran10> but would like to ask if anyone thinks it is a good idea
[11:59] <Ecran10> to try to make it compilable with older versions of FPC
[11:59] <Ecran10> ?>
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[13:04] <mischi> Ecran: It is probably better to ask on one of the mailing lists. You will reach more people, in particular core developers.
[13:08] <Ecran10> mischi yes, yes, was just writing a set of question to the good people working on JCL
[13:17] <sh4rm4^bnc> in general i think it's desirable to keep backwards compat
[13:30] <sh4rm4^bnc> unless the backwards compat targets a 31 year old thing such as C89
[13:30] <sh4rm4^bnc> (some projects still insist that their code needs to compile with -std=c89)
[13:32] <sh4rm4^bnc> the other extreme is people targeting C++-20 as soon as the first compiler supporting it is released
[13:33] <sh4rm4^bnc> that will force anyone requiring that piece of code to update their compiler too
[13:34] <sh4rm4^bnc> which in turn might break other stuff, because C++ is pretty volatile
[13:35] <Ecran10> the thing about JCL is that it has a lot of IFDEFs regarding the features that the compiler supports
[13:35] <Ecran10> with FPC 3.0.4 and a dependency on `sparta_generics.lpk` have managed to make it compile
[13:36] <Ecran10> with all the features JCL has to offer
[13:36] <Ecran10> now if they say it should also compile with some older version
[13:36] <Ecran10> would have some additional work to do regarding that
[13:37] <sh4rm4^bnc> they will certainly request that
[13:37] <Ecran10> and asked them this in order to see if there are good reasons for that
[13:37] <sh4rm4^bnc> the ifdef forest is proof of that ...
[13:37] <Ecran10> haha :))
[13:37] <Ecran10> forest!
[13:37] <Ecran10> man, this JCL thing has a lot, but a lot of nice things in it
[13:38] <Ecran10> and it would be a very big loss to not have it for FreePascal
[13:38] <Ecran10> it is destined for Windows
[13:38] <sh4rm4^bnc> yeah i know it. i always installed it into delphi, but ended up not using it
[13:39] <sh4rm4^bnc> iirc the install took like a minute or two
[13:39] <Ecran10> there are some Delphi specific files in it, related to specific debug routines and classes
[13:40] <Ecran10> but also classes to make it work easier with many APIs from the OS
[13:40] <Ecran10> and already built routines for working with the shell
[13:40] <sh4rm4^bnc> which shell ?
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[13:42] <Ecran10> the Windows shell
[13:42] <sh4rm4^bnc> how does that look like ? you got a code example ?
[13:42] <Ecran10> the one that integrates Explorer and all the COM functionality
[13:42] <Ecran10> it is the one with icons, windows
[13:42] <Ecran10> that you see when Windows starts
[13:42] <sh4rm4^bnc> shell32.dll ?
[13:42] <Ecran10> don't really know where this shell is located
[13:43] <Ecran10> because it is all scattered around in many files
[13:43] <sh4rm4^bnc> in linux lingua, shell means a command prompt
[13:43] <Ecran10> that is one file
[13:43] <Ecran10> oh :)) ok
[13:43] <sh4rm4^bnc> .wiki shellcode
[13:43] <ShaoB> Wiki: In hacking, a shellcode is a small piece of code used as the payload in the exploitation of a software vulnerability. It is called "shellcode" because it typically starts a command shell from which the attacker can control the compromised machine, but any piece of code that performs a similar task can be called shellcode.
[13:44] <Ecran10> not that one, either :))
[13:44] <sh4rm4^bnc> :)
[13:45] <Ecran10> 2 files that are part of the Windows Shell are the one that you mentioned
[13:45] <Ecran10> and shlwapi.dll
[13:45] <Ecran10> and there are probably more, but they are very tightly integrated with Windows
[13:46] <Ecran10> it is a lot of work to try to write a new shell for Windows or to replace it
[13:46] <Ecran10> and can't imagine how to do that
[13:46] <sh4rm4^bnc> so the shell is the desktop environment, the taskbar and stuff like that
[13:46] <Ecran10> yes, yes
[13:47] <sh4rm4^bnc> i've onced used an alternative shell on windows
[13:47] <sh4rm4^bnc> but i can't recall its name
[13:47] <John_Ivan> sh4rm4^bnc, shell is such a generic word that it has many uses depending on the context. The desktop environment is the shell. The commandline can be considered a shell. Shell code are malicious (usually) packed instructions that are ran as part of a binary.
[13:47] <sh4rm4^bnc> iirc it was even written in delphi
[13:48] <John_Ivan> and some components have become nouns when it comes to Windows shell programming
[13:48] <John_Ivan> such as Shell Extensions
[13:48] <sh4rm4^bnc> i'd define shellcode as "instructions that spawn a shell (/bin/sh)"
[13:48] <John_Ivan> that's not shellcode.
[13:48] <Ecran10> sh4rm4^bnc coming from Linux, that would be the first thought to it
[13:49] <John_Ivan> That, in my dictionary anyway, is known as just remote\\ shell spawning.
[13:50] <John_Ivan> or just "rooting", depending if the action involves some privilege escalation.
[14:03] <John_Ivan> I need a statusbar next. Tmux provides one but it gets it's buffer overwritten by ncurses. Trying to see if there's a way to limit the bounds of where I get to fill in pixels elegantly.
[14:07] <mischi> hehe. ncurses based lcl ;-)
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[16:55] <DiogenesW> good knight so far :)
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[19:28] <zaherdirkey> is there a hash list strings, that exists in Delphi and FPC?
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[19:31] <zaherdirkey> is there a hash list strings, that exists in Delphi and FPC?
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[21:07] <John_Ivan> what do you mean by hash list strings?
[21:07] <John_Ivan> that's like 3 different things in one noun.
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[21:37] <paule32> hello
[21:38] <paule32> i using lazarus, and would like recompile it with own chm help support, but i fail
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[00:42] <ShaoB> Deep brain stimulation - Wikipedia
[00:43] <John_Ivan> we already have such technology and it's used to treat parkinsons and a bunch of other disorders. it's not a perfect solution but it shows it's effects
[00:43] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, now imagine using it for other benefits like.... super fast mental calculations
[00:43] <John_Ivan> stimulate the mathematical region of your brain
[00:43] <John_Ivan> or the creative region
[00:44] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, to generate thoughts.
[00:44] <Ecran10> the sound of it is interesting
[00:44] <Ecran10> but the problem with it is who actually controls those chips
[00:44] <Ecran10> in the latest computers they are putting all sorts of hidden firmware
[00:45] <John_Ivan> sure. that's why I said that 1000 years later, likely this technology would have evolved and the conflict between who has power has resolved.
[00:45] <Ecran10> that can't be accessed, only by the BIOS/UEFI and in those firmwares are small OSes
[00:45] <Ecran10> oh ok ok
[00:45] <Ecran10> yes, an interesting point
[00:46] <Ecran10> about the immortality aspect, there were some people who were known to live
[00:46] <Ecran10> many years
[00:46] <Ecran10> a martial arts master who moved in the mountains and ate fruits and vegetables
[00:46] <John_Ivan> immortality is achievable. it just requires finding the correct DNA signature to mess with. the body is programmed to die.
[00:46] <Ecran10> lived about 250 years
[00:47] <John_Ivan> change that programming and the body should continuously renew it's cells
[00:47] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, there was some research where they tried to find the DNA in lizards who lost their limbs and had regenerative ability to grow back cut off parts of it's body
[00:47] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, they believe similar parts exist in humans as well
[00:48] <John_Ivan> which would allow us to restore our entire body if damaged.
[00:48] <John_Ivan> such as severe wounds or aging.
[00:48] <Ecran10> this is possible, but they don't want to tell us that
[00:49] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, I'd show you the research but it's deep in my bookmarks. I still haven't messed with firefox's pocket to solve my graveyard problem.
[00:49] <Ecran10> the civilian technology is at least 20 years behind the military technology that is known somehow
[00:49] <Ecran10> imagine the black projects
[00:50] <Ecran10> forgot the name of that director of Lockheed Martin that said they had the technology to send E.T. back home
[00:50] <Ecran10> and what was in the movies such as StarTrek or StarWars has either been built, either didn't present any interest
[00:51] <Ecran10> there are guys in the military that talk about them going to Mars, fighting wars over there
[00:51] <John_Ivan> it's gonna be a long until we get that. we still need to handle quantum physics to achieve teleportation first.
[00:51] <Ecran10> coming back 20 years later and being rejuvenated back
[00:51] <Ecran10> as if they hadn't lived 20 years
[00:51] <Ecran10> since they left
[00:51] <John_Ivan> dibs on quantum teleportation NIC cards.
[00:52] <John_Ivan> teleport your TX/RX buffers over the world :>
[00:52] <John_Ivan> faster than optical fiber
[00:52] <Ecran10> :)) yes
[00:52] <Ecran10> along with IPFS, would work great
[00:53] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, I should've been born 1000 years later :(
[00:53] <John_Ivan> maybe the afterlife will allow me to be born then
[00:54] <Ecran10> I like the times of the '60s
[00:54] <Ecran10> how they used to behave and dress in the US
[00:54] <Ecran10> used to watch old movies on TNT Classic Movies
[00:54] <Ecran10> about 20 years back
[00:54] <John_Ivan> sounds like the victorian times.
[00:54] <John_Ivan> modern victorian at least.
[00:54] <Ecran10> Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers
[00:55] <Ecran10> even the men suits were great in my opinion
[00:55] <Ecran10> they had the easy cut
[00:56] <John_Ivan> as someone who was born near the 2000 era where every kid is part of the atomic generation, I can say that I have mixed feelings about the past.
[00:56] <John_Ivan> I keep looking forward
[00:56] <John_Ivan> because I dread
[00:56] <John_Ivan> the life that existed in the past
[00:56] <John_Ivan> anything before 2000 was............ let's face it. a struggle.
[00:57] <Ecran10> partly yes
[00:57] <John_Ivan> war. suffering. more war. more suffering. shitty entertainment. etc.
[00:57] <John_Ivan> I don't even know how people survived in the past
[00:57] <John_Ivan> life must've been so boring and depressing
[00:58] <Ecran10> can't think of it like that
[00:58] <Ecran10> depends on how you get used
[00:58] <Ecran10> someone asked me what would I have been if it were to live back in the 1900
[00:59] <Ecran10> and told him that would have probably studied something technical or applied mathematics
[00:59] <John_Ivan> oh man, if I was born in 1900's and just hit age 90 or 100 I'd be extremely pissed with the fucking luck I have
[01:00] <John_Ivan> to experience technology that is so good now in 2020
[01:00] <John_Ivan> when you're on your deathbed =)))
[01:00] <Ecran10> :))
[01:00] <John_Ivan> I can say the tech in 2020 now is **satisfactory** for the modern era
[01:00] <John_Ivan> but
[01:00] <John_Ivan> I do wish I was born in 3030 :>
[01:01] <John_Ivan> who knows
[01:01] <John_Ivan> what gadgets we'd have
[01:01] <John_Ivan> by then
[01:01] <Ecran10> for example, in my life the most advanced technology is probably the Core2 Duo
[01:01] <Ecran10> the smartphone has mostly 3 numbers that I call
[01:01] <Ecran10> it is similar to a fixed phone
[01:02] <John_Ivan> You need to keep looking forward man. Get yourself an AMD Ryzen.
[01:02] <Ecran10> ah, no no
[01:02] <John_Ivan> and smartphones have whatsapp or viber nowadays :D
[01:02] <Ecran10> was thinking of tampering with some older computers
[01:03] <Ecran10> this new technology is without personality
[01:03] <Ecran10> doesn't have that deeper touch
[01:03] <Ecran10> be it computers or who knows what
[01:03] <John_Ivan> I only lived with new technology so I can't know what you mean. The oldest I go back was Win98 and XP.
[01:04] <John_Ivan> but for my entire life, Win7 and Linux have been the norm.
[01:04] <John_Ivan> as well as quad core computers
[01:04] <Ecran10> now even if someone gives me a faster computer, I don't know what to do with it
[01:05] <Ecran10> probably only 1 thing: play games
[01:05] <John_Ivan> I can give you a plethora of things you to do OTHER than games you could do with it.
[01:05] <John_Ivan> First and foremost, discard the HDD and get an SSD. that'll solve all IO bottlenecks when going for page faults.
[01:05] <John_Ivan> Your computer will be practically on drugs and your transfer rates will go from 30MB/s to 500MB/s
[01:06] <John_Ivan> booting takes 1-2 seconds
[01:06] <Ecran10> probably M$ makes its software slower day by day with new versions to force people to buy faster computers
[01:06] <John_Ivan> ignoring the splash screen.
[01:06] <John_Ivan> that is true. but
[01:06] <John_Ivan> the other thing you want to do is aim for "the edge"
[01:06] <Ecran10> have an SSD on SATA 2, the mainboard is SATA2
[01:07] <Ecran10> it works about 160 MB/sec
[01:07] <John_Ivan> Push your computer to the extreme. Achieve something like being able to run in parallel 1000 firefox tabs without your computer lagging.
[01:07] <John_Ivan> Pump it up with RAM - 64GB+
[01:07] <John_Ivan> See if popping windows from WPF still has that annoying 600ms delay
[01:08] <John_Ivan> and bring it down to 200-300ms or less.
[01:08] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, there's a lot that can be done.
[01:08] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, the maximum I managed to achieve was 500 firefox tabs before things got unbearable.
[01:08] <Ecran10> my question is that there has to be reason to do all this
[01:08] <John_Ivan> 35GB of ram is the amount of space it took
[01:09] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, of course. The reason is this - limitless resource potential.
[01:09] <Ecran10> ok ok
[01:10] <Ecran10> usually I think of how to get some things running i.e. on Pentium 1
[01:10] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, I have.... sort of an idiotic dream where I believe that computers should not have resource limits
[01:10] <Ecran10> would be interesting of bringing back some of the old computers
[01:10] <John_Ivan> whatever you do on a computer should not have limits
[01:10] <Ecran10> and show that many of the software that we are running today
[01:10] <Ecran10> is badly written
[01:10] <John_Ivan> be it stupendous amount of space, computation, etc.
[01:10] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, imagine being able to spawn 1000s of windows
[01:10] <Ecran10> maybe at some point things will really get like that
[01:11] <John_Ivan> to run anything without a single delay
[01:11] <John_Ivan> to not have to "wait" for thing to load
[01:11] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, yes, that's what I look forward to and that's why I say it's a good thing to "test" to see that limit.
[01:12] <Ecran10> for example there are these processors i7
[01:12] <Ecran10> they have a lot of cores plus the hyperthreading
[01:12] <Ecran10> and was thinking at some point if I would ever write a program
[01:13] <Ecran10> that would really require such power
[01:13] <Ecran10> and couldn't come up with anything
[01:13] <John_Ivan> Ecran10, how about a faster compression algorithm that still has a decent ratio?
[01:13] <John_Ivan> kinda hate having to wait 20-30 minutes to compress 10GB.
[01:14] <John_Ivan> and only get 89% compression.
[01:14] <Ecran10> haven't compressed such large data
[01:14] <John_Ivan> really? :O
[01:14] <Ecran10> really :))
[01:14] <John_Ivan> but... don't you watch movies
[01:14] <John_Ivan> or have games or music
[01:14] <John_Ivan> bluray now takes up a shitton of space
[01:14] <Ecran10> yes, but they are 720p maximum
[01:15] <Ecran10> have watched a few as 1080p
[01:15] <Ecran10> but there wasn't any difference on my monitor
[01:15] <Ecran10> my monitor is 1280x1024
[01:15] <John_Ivan> I see. I have to go to sleep. Sorry for the abrupt interruption.
[01:15] <Ecran10> 4:3 aspect ratio
[01:15] <Ecran10> ok ok
[01:15] <Ecran10> good night
[01:15] <John_Ivan> Goodnight mate.
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[23:21] <Ecran10> hahaha :)))
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[23:37] <GPF_PRO> buggy compiler
[23:37] <GPF_PRO> ;)
[23:37] <GPF_PRO> Try putting "FileUtils" in the uses list and compile
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[23:38] <GPF_PRO> "FileUtils" does not exist but use that name anyways
[23:39] <Ecran10> let's see
[23:39] <Ecran10> seems that The Bug Busters team is having a plan :))
[23:39] <GPF_PRO> Did you see the funny error message ?
[23:39] <Ecran10> 2 sec
[23:40] <GPF_PRO> it reports finding "fileUtil" instead.
[23:40] <Ecran10> GPF_PRO ah yes, similar to Graphics32 and Graphics
[23:40] <Ecran10> as the last time
[23:40] <Ecran10> :))
[23:40] <GPF_PRO> Yes..
[23:41] <GPF_PRO> I have been coming up with examples of file names to test
[23:41] <GPF_PRO> either its a bug, left over DEV debug message or the message is incomplete
[23:41] <GPF_PRO> for example, If could say
[23:42] <GPF_PRO> "Searching for xxxxx, but found xxxx. DId you mean Xxxxx?"
[23:42] <GPF_PRO> or
[23:43] <GPF_PRO> "Failed to find xxxxx, did you mean XXXXX?"
[23:43] <GPF_PRO> But even so, with shorter file names this does not happen
[23:43] <GPF_PRO> for example.
[23:43] <GPF_PRO> Formss
[23:44] <GPF_PRO> it does not come up and say "Found Forms"
[23:44] <Ecran10> back
[23:44] <GPF_PRO> It could be some left over 8.3 file naming code that has been in there for years
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[23:45] <Ecran10> very interesting
[23:46] <Ecran10> have to post a bug with this
[23:46] <Ecran10> "Bad error message utterance"
[23:46] <GPF_PRO> That's ok, i find it's kind of a waste of time..
[23:46] <GPF_PRO> there are only a very few that work on teh compiler.
[23:47] <Ecran10> Professor, no waste of time, will put this on the desktop in a text file and will put a bug up there for you
[23:47] <Ecran10> and will mention that you found it
[23:47] <GPF_PRO> Well there is already some post about it in the forum.
[23:47] <GPF_PRO> fpc/general
[23:48] <GPF_PRO> Free Pascal/general
[23:48] <GPF_PRO> at the top
[23:49] <Ecran10> found it
[23:51] <Jo-Anna> That conspiracy channel is distracting they need to ban the pharma pr rep
[23:52] <GPF_PRO> You'll noticed that big/fat mouth Thaddy is on there drooling try his best to get a poke at me... He usually ends up with egg on his face. You would think he would learn by now.
[23:52] <Jo-Anna> I’ve been fumbling with the same problem in my code for days
[23:52] <Ecran10> :)) 2 sec to read the posts
[23:53] <Jo-Anna> Is there link?
[23:53] <GPF_PRO> it does not stop me from compilng., its just a cosmetic issue.
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[00:22] <Ecran10> oh, just look at her so theatrical
[00:23] <Ecran10> "While often lively, interesting, and sometimes dramatic, they have difficulty when people aren’t focused exclusively on them."
[00:23] <GPF_PRO> He's also the cause of a lot of bloat, bad code and misunderstanding of how classes work
[00:24] <GPF_PRO> I've ported a lot of code from other languages, big deal. That is what a real programm tries to do. Not saying that it always goes off without a hitch.
[00:24] <sh4rm4^bnc> quite the opposite, he showed me how to write gui components from scratch in about 20 lines without OOP bloat
[00:26] <GPF_PRO> You will find a lot of his work in the class/Record helpers that bloat the system.The proper step would be to place these items in their own units so others dom't have to suffer with that code sitting dead in the water within the app talking up space.
[00:26] <GPF_PRO> WHen ever you add something that is of interest to maybe only a few, it should be in its own unit.
[00:27] <GPF_PRO> YEs yes, I 've read some of that too..
[00:28] <GPF_PRO> He has a personaliy disorder.. He can't take no for an answer and he can't admit wrong.. I am used to admitting wrong because i am most of the time.
[00:46] <ShaoB> speed up big config parsing by 2x using gperf · tinyproxy/tinyproxy@4532358 · GitHub
[00:46] <GPF_PRO> Actually,l pointers are your program. You can't live without them..
[00:47] <GPF_PRO> even if you were reading script.. there are still pointers doing that foryou.
[00:47] <GPF_PRO> and speaking of pointers, I have one for you. ;)
[00:47] <sh4rm4^bnc> of course, because in the end your code runs on CPU and RAM
[00:48] <GPF_PRO> I made a suggestion a couple of times about the compiler being able to do something that would make life much better for the coders in terms of procedures and functions
[00:49] <GPF_PRO> but as norm would have it, "NO"
[00:49] <sh4rm4^bnc> oh? what would that be?
[00:49] <GPF_PRO> The compiler should be abvle to tell the difference between a function and procedure for overloads
[00:50] <GPF_PRO> if you do a call as a procedure, it should first look to find a tag as a procedure only
[00:50] <sh4rm4^bnc> anyway regarding thaddy... i guess it was the first time in my youth i interacted with a senior, experienced programmer and it kinda opened my eyes. before that i only heard the bullshit from forum idiots
[00:50] <GPF_PRO> and then fall back to the default calling
[00:51] <GPF_PRO> Well there is still BS from the forums and Thaddy isn't innocent
[00:51] <Antitrack> OMG its Forrest Trump!
[00:52] <sh4rm4^bnc> i dunno why but forums seem to attract idiots
[00:52] <GPF_PRO> Gumpy
[00:52] <GPF_PRO> They do at times, but I do see some real coders in there now and then just trying to get information
[00:52] <GPF_PRO> or get something done
[00:52] <sh4rm4^bnc> maybe it's because you can put an avatar there, or because there's a post counter
[00:52] <GPF_PRO> LOL
[00:53] <sh4rm4^bnc> the worst forums are those where you can add banners as a footer to every post
[00:53] <GPF_PRO> I've read a lot of Thaddys post and a good chunk of them are nothing more than fillers.. post that has no content but it increments the post counter
[00:54] <sh4rm4^bnc> well, he's got 10K posts so there must be something to it
[00:55] <sh4rm4^bnc> poor soul, still caught up in win32 and pascal
[00:56] <GPF_PRO> and yes and you should of seen how many crap post he made just prior to that before it rolled over, after that you didn't hear from it for some time.
[00:57] <GPF_PRO> This is why I say "HPD"
[00:57] <sh4rm4^bnc> i think he must be around 70 by now
[00:57] <GPF_PRO> Not sure about that one.
[00:57] <sh4rm4^bnc> he'll probably take pascal to his grave
[00:57] <GPF_PRO> and it really does not matter, the numbers that is..
[00:58] <GPF_PRO> people are who they are and they really don't change that much over the years outside of a medical condition
[00:59] <GPF_PRO> My father in law was a perfect example
[01:00] <GPF_PRO> I found him to be very stubborn, moody, never believe anyone or anything. You had to watch your spare change around him etc..
[01:00] <GPF_PRO> I thought it was just his old age
[01:01] <GPF_PRO> people getting old up in their 90's tend to slow down and made strange choices..
[01:02] <GPF_PRO> but I ran into some of his friends over time and they told me there was nothihng wrong with my father in law, that was and is the way he's been since he was a yonger..
[01:02] <GPF_PRO> so there go
[01:02] <GPF_PRO> the old story goes as it always has..
[01:02] <GPF_PRO> "Once a jerk, always one "
[01:02] <sh4rm4^bnc> :>
[01:02] <GPF_PRO> and thus I tell people I am an jerk too.
[01:03] <GPF_PRO> at least I don't beat around the bush and try to cover it up
[01:04] <GPF_PRO> As it was said earlier. "Straight Shooter"
[01:05] <GPF_PRO> Off topic,. I hear C++ 20 is getting out there ?
[01:05] <GPF_PRO> is it yet in the gcc ?
[01:05] <sh4rm4^bnc> certainly
[01:06] <GPF_PRO> whic one supports it?
[01:06] <sh4rm4^bnc> i think gcc 10
[01:06] <sh4rm4^bnc> i still use GCC 6.5.0
[01:06] <sh4rm4^bnc> imo best one since they started to use C++
[01:06] <GPF_PRO> Ok, so I should be able to update the codeBlocks I have installed now ?
[01:06] <sh4rm4^bnc> (gcc was written in C until including gcc 4.7.4)
[01:07] <GPF_PRO> Well that does not surpise me..
[01:07] <sh4rm4^bnc> (so if you only have a C compiler on your system, you first need to compile GCC 4.7.4, then with that you can compile a newer one written in C++)
[01:08] <GPF_PRO> I have a C++ compiler on board, Its installed with Codeblocks
[01:08] <sh4rm4^bnc> oh certainly
[01:09] <sh4rm4^bnc> somehow i forgot that other people don't bootstrap all their stuff from sourcecode
[01:09] <GPF_PRO> But I have problems with that install.
[01:10] <GPF_PRO> I tried to get apps to compile without using DLL widgets and have the code static link but it just fails at some point
[01:10] <GPF_PRO> it seems not all the source code is there for the widgets to make it so.